Pulsing & Glottal Triplets: a 6-flute comparison

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:34 pm

Here is my latest flute comparison.

Disclaimer: note that this is not meant to be a guide of what flute to buy or not to buy, or of how to play the flutes you have, may have, may not have, or may one day have. Your flutes may respond differently to your playing than mine do to me. Your flutes might also respond differently to my playing then they do to your playing. And doubtless my flutes would respond differently to you then they do to me. So there.

Purpose: Given 6 flutes, to use the reel John Henry's as a case study to determine how well each flute handles the techniques of glottal triples and of breath pulsing, and to see how strongly the breath pulses can be pushed on each flute while remaining reasonably in tune and without the sound breaking.

Glottal triplets are an advanced technique that I'm starting (finally) to be able to do at speed, and I've found the effect is more pronounced on some flutes than on others.

Due to the size of the recording, it is broken into two 900-k files:

http://www.flutesite.com/samples/6flute_comp_1.mp3

http://www.flutesite.com/samples/6flutecomp_2.mp3

Part 1 covers the following three flutes:

--Seery Pratten polymer
--M&E "Rudall & Rose" model polymer
--M&E original model with "Split Front" sculptured embouchure

Part 2 covers the following three flutes:

--antique 8-key annon. blackwood, probably German
--Hamilton blackwood
--Gemeinhardt 3SS-B Boehm-system flute in sterling

As always, comments, feedback, and even (friendly) controversy are welcomed and encouraged.

--James

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:12 pm

I think you're really making progress, James!

I'd make two suggestions, humbly.

First, back off on the breath pulses a little. I think it's too forceful and disrupts the line of your music. Second, I think the glottal triplets are a little off rhythm. I think you're working too hard, and if you relax, it'll fall into place.

Oh, and I don't think a major tune should end on the E; you shouldn't try to change keys at the end of a tune for just the last note. If this reel made use of E, it'd be a different story, but it's really wants to end on a D.

In my opinion, of course.

Stuart

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:15 am

Oh my gosh! Don't let my comments be the only ones! Yeesh! Now I sound like some old hag.

All I need's a spinning wheel.

Stuart

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:23 am

James, I am impressed and pleased to hear how traditional you are able to make the silver Boehm fulte sound!

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:33 am

sturob wrote:Oh my gosh! Don't let my comments be the only ones! Yeesh! Now I sound like some old hag.

All I need's a spinning wheel.

Stuart

I prefer "The Old Hag in the Kiln" meself!

No worries, Stuart...I always appreciate your feedback and your taking the time to listen.

Jessie, thanks...I really enjoy playing the tunes on the Boehm flute, because it can be pushed so hard. I'm also proud of that flute--I did a complete repad late last year, and they are sealing very nicely, giving it a nice thump even down on the low B.

It's a good thing I do my own work--after the "you gotta bend the keys" statement from one of the local repairmen, I'm not sure I'd trust any local shop to work on it.

--James

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:40 am

sturob wrote:Oh my gosh! Don't let my comments be the only ones! Yeesh! Now I sound like some old hag.

And what if James gets all depressed reading your comments and decides to kill himself? Then his last words could truly be "Old hag, you've killed me!"!

Okay, never mind...

Apart from that, I agree with most of the Old H..., sorry Stuart's comments (but I don't know if the breath pulsing was slightly overdone intentionally).

However, I thought it a fun, unexpected variation to end the tune on the E, but then again, I also like to end The Butterfly on the Fsharp.

As usual, a very interesting comparison from James. Thanks, and keep it up.

Jens

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:44 am

What's interesting to me is that all these flutes (with the exception of the Boehm) sound pretty much the same -- I mean yeah, there are differences, but overall the differences don't jump out at you; they're fairly subtle. The overall effect is less "here are six different flutes" and more "here's James Peeples playing the same tune six times."

This is in line with my experience: lots of people have tried out my flute, and they almost always sound like themselves (i.e. the way they sound when they play their own flute). This also explains why people who buy a Grinter because Kevin Crawford plays one, or an Olwell because Matt Molloy plays one, don't sound like Kevin Crawford or Matt Molloy. The sound you get from a flute is due as much or more to the player as the flute. It's obvious, but well-illustated in James's examples here.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:59 am

peeplj wrote:It's a good thing I do my own work--after the "you gotta bend the keys" statement from one of the local repairmen, I'm not sure I'd trust any local shop to work on it.

My goodness!!

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:11 am

JessieK wrote:
peeplj wrote:It's a good thing I do my own work--after the "you gotta bend the keys" statement from one of the local repairmen, I'm not sure I'd trust any local shop to work on it.
My goodness!!

Yeah, that method is not uncommon, I'm sorry to say. A friend of mine that tried a respectable local repairman for a repad job had every key of her Powell flute bent by the guy. She ended up having to send it to Powell so they could unbend it, at a huge expense.

James, I always enjoy your flute comparisons.

Dana

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:13 am

bradhurley wrote:This is in line with my experience: lots of people have tried out my flute, and they almost always sound like themselves (i.e. the way they sound when they play their own flute).

I need to get up to Montreal because I want to sound like Brad Hurley.

Stuart

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:24 am

The story of the "bend the keys" thing--last year I repadded my flute; most of the pads on it were 17 years old, pads I had installed myself in college, and I decided a repad was long overdue.

I keep a small stock of pads and other repair supplies, and occasionally work on flutes for friends. I had almost all the pads I needed to do the repad, but needed just a few more French-cut pads.

I took one with me to the local music store, to ensure I got the right size. The repairman was concerned because the only pads he had were thicker than the one I gave him for a sample; I told him to not worry about it, as I could shim the pads and they would work just fine.

He looked at me like I was insane, and said, "Shim them? That won't work...you have to bend the keys!"

I was a bit shocked, but completed my purchase of the pads and left. The pads installed fine...it only takes a few minutes per pad to shim them in once you're in practice...and, as already stated, I'm glad I know how to do this work, because that repairman is never ever touching my flute.

Now I'll grant you, I prefer pads too thin than too thick, but it's not that hard to make 'em work either way...just takes patience and good shimming technique.

Like many intermediate flutes, the keys on my Gemeinhardt are cold-forged silver, a process that makes silver quite hard and strong. It's possible a key would actually break before it bent enough to change the seating of a pad significantly.

I should also point out that this is not the same repairman or even the same music store that brought my antique 8-key back to life for me many years ago. I don't think that old fella was a key-bender.

--James

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:29 am

dhigbee wrote:
JessieK wrote:
peeplj wrote:It's a good thing I do my own work--after the "you gotta bend the keys" statement from one of the local repairmen, I'm not sure I'd trust any local shop to work on it.
My goodness!!
Yeah, that method is not uncommon, I'm sorry to say. A friend of mine that tried a respectable local repairman for a repad job had every key of her Powell flute bent by the guy. She ended up having to send it to Powell so they could unbend it, at a huge expense.

James, I always enjoy your flute comparisons.

Dana

Oh ouch!!!

The thought of a Powell being bent around on is enough to make my blood run cold.

That's just no way to ever treat such a lovely flute.

Customer: could you look at my Lexus? It seems to have a miss when cold.

Dealer: let me bang on the engine with this hammer...there! that oughta fix it good!

--James

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:55 pm

bradhurley wrote:What's interesting to me is that all these flutes (with the exception of the Boehm) sound pretty much the same -- I mean yeah, there are differences, but overall the differences don't jump out at you; they're fairly subtle. The overall effect is less "here are six different flutes" and more "here's James Peeples playing the same tune six times."

This is in line with my experience: lots of people have tried out my flute, and they almost always sound like themselves (i.e. the way they sound when they play their own flute). This also explains why people who buy a Grinter because Kevin Crawford plays one, or an Olwell because Matt Molloy plays one, don't sound like Kevin Crawford or Matt Molloy. The sound you get from a flute is due as much or more to the player as the flute. It's obvious, but well-illustated in James's examples here.

My impression exactly, Brad. I've weighed in on the flute-comparison thread at least one time too many, voicing that it doesn't say as much about the flutes than it does the player, so I'll spare everyone, especially James

another round on the podium, but the diffences between these takes are minimal at best. Not so ironically, then, I kinda like you on the Gemeinhart the best; I still think that's the one you're most comfortable with, James, all things considered, and comfort with a flute, above all else, affects the performance much more than any flute's specs.
Gordon

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:45 pm

Well, to me the differences are somewhat more pronounced, but then again I also know what it felt like to play them, how the antique 8-key is a bit stuffy and a bit slower to respond, how the Seery is hard to get lined up just so, how you have to use very soft fingers on the M&E R&R or you get a nice resonant built-in bodhran, how the Hammy takes what you give it and begs for more...

Gordon, I appreciate your viewpoint but I really think you miss the point of the comparisons and why they are of value. Thus the disclaimer I've encluded on this (and all future) flute comparisons. It's just not about recommending one flute over another. It's not meant as a recommendation as to which flute someone should purchase.

Oddly, this reel is not really a comfortable piece to play on the Gemeinhardt...far from it, it took many frustrating takes to get a decently clean runthrough. As for being most comfortable in general on that flute, it's certainly true I once was, but not for years now. I'd say I'm most comfortable on the Hammy and on the M&E 6-key.

But if it came across sounding comfortable, then I'll feel free to take that as a powerful compliment, and I'll say thank'ee kindly.

Best wishes to all,

--James

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:49 pm

Wait, Gordon missed the point of another flute comparison?

Stop the presses!

Heh.

At least he didn't turn this into an indictment of Canadian health care, which I did over on the UP board in responding to a simple post about Andreas Rogge's pipes. Me and my lack of a filter.

Stuart