Na Piobaire Uilleann agus Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann

[Uilliam]

Prompted by Royces' rambling rant against Na Piobaire Uilleann and Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann I would like to point out the good work that both outfits do.
C.C.E was formed in the 50's when Irish Music was very much in decline.Some pipers and other musicians got together and decided to form CCE in order to stimulate interest in and keep the traditional form alive,with particular emphasis on promoting the Piob Uilleann agus Clarsach.
Since then it has gained worldwide status in enabling youngsters ,and not so young,to access their traditional culture.Even more importantly it has brought the wide Irish Diaspora together to celebrate their heritage.

NPU was formed in 1968 for much the same reason,only a handful of pipemakers,a few players and the very real risk that the instrument would die out.
Now with over 1000 members worldwide and branches in every continent the instrument is enjoying unparrelleld popularity.
The aims of NPU is to "perpetuate the spirit of music,in particular the playing of pipes and the production and maintenance of the instrument"I think it has succeeded admirably.
NPU and CCE rely on subscription ,grants and gifts to survive.For as little as 19Euros for NPU and £8 CCE per annum I think that is money(dosh as Royce spits) well spent.
Many people reading this forum would not be in a position to be playing this instrument without the far sightedness of those early founders or indeed the likes of my subscription money!
As for setting themselves up as experts,who, apart from Royce said they did,although I wouldnae mind betting there is more expertise within their fold than there is outside of it.Undoubtedly both NPU and CCE have helped many a traditional musician on the way.
So may I suggest that rather than lambast and ridicule aforesaid organisations from without, that Royce gets off his arse instead of speaking through it,and joins,thereby making a REALLY helpful contribution to the piping world,which he professes to shew such an interest in,or go back to the whistle forum from whence he came.
:roll:
Uilliam

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

NPU and CCE rely on subscription ,grants and gifts to survive.For as little as 19Euros for NPU and £8 CCE per annum I think that is money(dosh as Royce spits) well spent.

That must be the "student or unwaged" membership for NPU. Full membership for them is still 38 euros = $42, for an American, anyway. Quite a few bucks, for four newsletters a year. Still. Aren't we all students in a sense? Hey!

[lemonsquash]

Don't bother yourself getting angry with Royce. It's petrol on an inferno.

[Uilliam]

NPU and CCE rely on subscription ,grants and gifts to survive.For as little as 19Euros for NPU and £8 CCE per annum I think that is money(dosh as Royce spits) well spent.

That must be the "student or unwaged" membership for NPU. Full membership for them is still 38 euros = $42, for an American, anyway. Quite a few bucks, for four newsletters a year. Still. Aren't we all students in a sense? Hey!

Kevin , Kinda Correct...its 5 magazines a year but that is not the only benefit.
Lemonsquash ,you have a point,thanks
Slan go foill
Liam

[Jim McGuire]

Hey, the stuff we read here is free. Does that make it a better value?

[Guest]

over 1000 members worldwide
NPU and CCE rely on subscription ,grants and gifts to survive.For as little as 19Euros for NPU and £8 CCE per annum I think that is money(dosh as Royce spits) well
:roll:
Uilliam

Yeah I used think that too, paid from the USA, and was happy with
the 4 mags if only because Terry
Moylan is great reading. But

[Lorenzo]

Last year, after a long break from uilleann piping, I wanted to get caught up so I inquired about some of the news letters. Unfortunately, I got some derogatory comments (from some in the industry) about the internet. The comments seemed a little self-serving and protective. After all, they were first, and probably have much better overall authority. I realize there is some posting of newsletters online, but I'm led to believe that the industry sees this forum use--a free kind of exchange of information--as a threat. So I decided to just hold off on my donations.

(Hey sailor, I actually appreciated what you just edited out)

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Kevin , Kinda Correct...its 5 magazines a year but that is not the only benefit.

Their Master Piper series of CDs are a great idea, the Johnny Doran is fantastic and I'm keen to get the Tommy Kearney as well. Ever since hearing some of the fantastic private tapes of Ennis, Reck, and Clancy, and Rowsome's unreleased 78s, to only name the well named names, I've been asking all over the place when this stuff can be in every home. It would really do true justice to them as musicians, the commercially released stuff in so many cases falls short, catching them after their prime or not quite at their best.
But NPU's just become too expensive for me. I wish they'd cut out some of the fat and lower their dues, become less of an entity, and offer more tangible benefits to overseas members like myself. Aside from An Piobarie the only real benefit I derived from them was be able to buy cheap cassettes and CDs, and even in 1996 I could have picked up everything in their catalogue stateside, for barely much more money. It would be great if they could offer better pipemaking blueprints to the public, for instance, than Garvin's or Ginsberg's.

[kenr]

Yeah, their tapes and CDs are not that cheap by US prices and what foreigner wants to support the delapidated old Georgian pile they have in Dublin.

Something you can't deny though is that NPU tionols and the Willie Clancy Summer school were the spark that started it all. Beyond the piper in the next town (if you were lucky!) where would many of us have got our piping technique before the 1970s? I bet there wouldn't be enough of us to sustain this forum without the summer schools.

Uilliam's right you can't knock NPU or Comhaltas just because they have achieved what they set out to do.

Maybe the debate should be what do they do now?

Ken

[djm]

Kenr, bang on the money there. NPU should be justifiably proud of what they have managed to provide regarding teaching and promoting UPs. But that teaching is still aimed at home (Ireland), and especially towards their young.

I understand Kevin being a bit miffed by the Irish attitude to outsiders (very polite to your face, but basically couldn't give a damn about you) and I have run into this in several places related to ITM. But really, its not our music, its theirs, and they don't have time for us whining about how hard done by we think we are. There is a whole piping world in Ireland that we never see or hear about over here. There are players who never intend to record, versions of tunes we will never see written down. NPU is very wrapped up in a scene that we are not a part of.

I support NPU because they still set the standards for UP instruction and instructors, even if those standards are not written (no, I do not want to rehash that topic again). Let's not forget that when we do have a tionál here, and the lead or guest instructor is coming from Ireland, that person is coming to pass on to us what NPU has given them.

I could care less about the quality or frequency of their newsletter. I would much rather see good piping instruction continue to be passed on. I would rather see projects like the Master Pipers series of CDs, or the transciptions of Touhey, Clancy, and now Ennis being made available rather than worry about what type of building they are housed in. The membership fees are negligible, considering how much money we are dumping on imported CDs.

I don't think its too much to ask, though, that from time to time NPU pay at least a little attention to those of us outside that insular little world.

djm

[boyd]

now am I right in thinking that Irish dance now looks a lot to places like Chicago for its standards and development?

Maybe you guys across the water should be leading the way in the decades to come....there are some future greats in the US [Eliot G. for instance]. Uilleann pipes may come from Ireland, but they don't demand a heritage in the player.... it is now an instrument played the world over, and NPU hasn't quite kept pace......but what else is there??

Boyd

[Re: why Ireland is still the "centre"...There's a lot of teaching in schools in Éire which pump primes the tradition, and has nothing particularly to do with NPU. After a few years, these kids want to move from the whistle to something else....some of them like the pipes.
It's all about stimulating an interest, and having some sort of teaching available once the we'ins want to learn.]

[Uilliam]

Don't ye think its a bit odd that some of ye moan about the cost of subscription to NPU,which isn't a lot,yet quite happily go out and spend thousands of pounds/bucks/or whatever to buy the instrument that NPU enabled to survive???
Anyways this idea of "what do I get for my money" is so self demeaning.Surely it should be what can I give not what can I take!!Many pipers over the decades of NPU's existence have given so much freely it is a shame on ye today to be so self centred.
NPU is in real trouble financially at the moment and could well cease to exist...
So if ye really care about piping,why not support the organisation that cares about piping?Join and enjoy the feeling ye are helping the NPU to survive..thats got to be worth a few bucks doesn't it?
Slan go foill
Liam

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

As I mentioned, the NPU subscription is expensive. When I first joined it was ₤15 I think, then ₤20, then ₤30, in the space of two years. They'd send me application forms for their tionols, it was something like ₤120 to attend. 120 euros is $135. Contrast this with the American pipers' club whose annual dues went from $15 to $20 last year, the first increase since its inception in 1980. Lean and mean. All we do is publish a Review, one or two books, Tshirts, and put on a Tionol every February. A lack of ambition is at work here, perhaps, but the club is quite sound financially, and there's next to nothing in the way of politics involved.
NPU are welcome to be as xenophobic as they want to be, it was the greed in the form of this huge dues increase that I found appaling. That and what I frankly cosidered to be a lack of content problem with An Piobarie. If they want a universal constituency they should provide a universal appeal. They're simply not going to be able to compete with all the mail order houses in the world, for instance; they should just give up selling other labels' books and CDs, and keep up the fine work on their own publications, in my opinion.

[djm]

Kevin, perhaps you are looking at NPU as if they were a retailer or commercial service provider of some kind. They are neither. I look at them as more of a volunteer organization with a common love for ITM in general, and UPs in particular. I do not have such great expectations from them as you seem to place, looking for value for your money, as you do.

As I understand it, they offer access to Irish CDs for those who cannot readily access them locally. Probably this service was instigated by constant requests from those outside of Ireland. That they can get a discount as well is just a bonus. I was one of those people until the internet gave me access to resources I had previously been unaware of.

I must agree with you regarding content in An Píobare. The letter put out by the Seattle-based Irish Pipers Club is much more what I would expect from a group of the stature of NPU. When one considers the type of resources NPU has access to in the way of players and makers, the present effort is somewhat wanting in terms of usable content.

djm

[Evertjan 't Hart]

If you ask yourself 'what's in it for me' consider it's possible that without the NPU and the work they did to promote piping and pipemaking most of us would be unaware of the instrument and unable to get our hands on a set. The American pipers' club was probably never founded nor this forum.
And for all this every piper should support the NPU.

Evertjan