Recorder versus whistle

bjs · Post by **bjs** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:44 am

I started playing a whistle by accident and am now thoroughly addicted. But I see recorders produce the sound in the same way and have 2 extra holes ergo they must be more versatile. So why not punch two extra holes in a whistle and play it like a recorder? What is the difference? Why limit to 6 holes? Why? Why? Why?

Ignoramous

lixnaw · Post by **lixnaw** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:32 am

is this what you're looking for? http://www.overton.de/texte/pricelist.html

skh · Post by **skh** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:02 am

bjs wrote:Why? Why? Why?

Why have different instruments at all? Why not unroll the trumpet and make it a trombone? Why having grand pianos when the "normal" piano plays just as well?.

Sonja

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:30 am

skh wrote:
bjs wrote:Why? Why? Why?
Why have different instruments at all? Why not unroll the trumpet and make it a trombone? Why having grand pianos when the "normal" piano plays just as well?.

Sonja

There is a more sympathetic way to interpret the question bjs is asking, Sonja. Could we have an instrument with the chromatic advantages of a recorder that sounded like a whistle (and still permitted half holing)?

Daniel Bingamon (Jubilee Whistles) is working on precisiely this question. Colin Goldie has produced near-chromatic Overtons but I think he doesn't regard them as very playable.

If these experiments prove successful we won't have fewer instruments, we'll have more instruments. The existence of wooden flutes with a few keys hasn't rendered either the simple diatonic flute or the concert flute redundant. The more the merrier in my opinion.

I play Anglo concertina but the existence of English and duet systems isn't a threat, it makes the world just so much richer. Actually, if you want a fight about which instrument in a certain class is 'best,' don't ask a concertina player. We happily muck around with different button layouts and are never quite sure what to expect when we pick up an instrument for the first time.

bjs · Post by **bjs** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:43 am

One of the things that puzzle me is I have come across several posts where recorder players have switched to whistle playing. Why would anyone bother? Could it be that a whistle has advantages that are not apparent to me? Could it be that quality manufacturers are more abundant in the whistle community. A related question is why (in the UK at least) recorders are in schools but not whistles. Is a whistle harder to play? Are we where we are because of historical accident - whistles developed as a folk instrument. recorders revived and popularised by one enthusiast back in the thirties.
Enough for now

Brian

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:57 am

1) The 6-hole whistle is complex enough to handle the type of music most played on it - folk music. Simple tunes in standard keys, with few accidentals.

2) Who wants eight holes when they only have six fingers? - H J Simpson

3) Six holes gives all the notes you need to play an octave scale.

bjs wrote:
One of the things that puzzle me is I have come across several posts where recorder players have switched to whistle playing. Why would anyone bother? Could it be that a whistle has advantages that are not apparent to me? Could it be that quality manufacturers are more abundant in the whistle community. A related question is why (in the UK at least) recorders are in schools but not whistles. Is a whistle harder to play? Are we where we are because of historical accident - whistles developed as a folk instrument. recorders revived and popularised by one enthusiast back in the thirties.
Enough for now

Brian

The recorder is great for playing the type of music usually played on recorders - classical. Recorders & whistle ssound totally different (warning - some people don't think so).

If schools taught more folk music and less classical, I think a lot more people would continue making their own music after school, and not relying on others to do it for them.

In Irish Schools, whistle is taught, not recorder. Suprisingly, Ireland is now a Mecca for people who love to make & play their own music.

Hmmm. I think I'm getting an idea....

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:03 am

The recorder is indeed more versatile in playing in different keys, but the whistle, in its diatonic fingering, has some advantages. For one thing, some notes sound better on the whistle than on recorded, and the cross-fingering of the recorder makes some ornamentation more accessible on the whistle, though some ornamentation is widely used in recorder playing. Another advantage of the whistle, is that it tends to have a wider range.

The bores of Baroque recorders give them a different tone (which I like) from most whistles.

Susato makes a line of whistle-like "Renaissance" recorders. They are available from http://www.susato.com/SusatoRecorders.htm Another attractive Renaissance recorder is the wooden Dream Flute, designed by Adriana Breukink, and made by Mollenhauer. They are available from http://www.vonhuene.com/mollenhauer_dream.cfm

There are clips of both the alto and the soprano Dream Flute at Clips & Snips: http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/non.html

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:05 am

bjs wrote:One of the things that puzzle me is I have come across several posts where recorder players have switched to whistle playing. Why would anyone bother? Could it be that a whistle has advantages that are not apparent to me? Could it be that quality manufacturers are more abundant in the whistle community. A related question is why (in the UK at least) recorders are in schools but not whistles. Is a whistle harder to play? Are we where we are because of historical accident - whistles developed as a folk instrument. recorders revived and popularised by one enthusiast back in the thirties.
Enough for now

Brian

That's a lot of questions for one post Brian. Let me try to get to the heart of your concerns.

Those of us who play whistle do not think that whistles sound much like recorders. We play them because we like the way they sound for the music we like to play on them. That music is Irish and Scottish traditional music, kwela, blues, and, on diffrent kinds of whistle, folk music from all over the world. Whistles tend to have a rougher, raspier sound than recorders and tend be more conducive to sound manipulation of extreme kinds—pitch alteration, growls, smears, wails etc. Recorders have a more 'polite' sound and seem at home in certain English folk contexts and in classical music. Even very pure sounding whistles don't sound like recorders to me.

bjs · Post by **bjs** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:17 am

Thanks guys. I'm really blown away (no pun intended) by this whistle board. I post a few questions and have all the answers I could want before getting up from my computer to play another tune on my whistle.

Brian now switching off, and off to do something useful

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:33 am

For me the answer is that the whistle is less complicated than the recorder. I don't play a one-key flute for the same reason, i. e., that it requires a lot of cross-fingering.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:42 am

chas wrote:For me the answer is that the whistle is less complicated than the recorder. I don't play a one-key flute for the same reason, i. e., that it requires a lot of cross-fingering.

To me, the recorder fingering is more complex (with the F always cross-fingered, whether sharp or not, and second octave fingerings different from low register), while whistles demand more breath control.

Also, my guess is any instrument meant to be diatonic will finger easier, faster... on diatonic scales, of course. And vice-versa.

As for the whistle and whistle music, they do seem to favour speed before versatility.
The baroque recorder seems to have been an answer to increasingly chromatic (or "accidented") music. It's similar to the later Boehm flutes in a way, and may explain their "C" scale base (ok, both have F variations...).
Typically, the whistles went in another direction: keeping mostly diatonic while multiplying the transposing pitches, starting from D which now is the "standard" scale.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:01 am

There is a real difference in tone between recorder and whistles.

The very qualities which recorder players love and seek in their instruments, namely a louder, projective tone with a bit of an edge, and a tight voicing with lots of resistance, are often things which some whistle players seek to actively avoid in their instruments.

There is a place for both.

--James

Boo · Post by **Boo** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:02 am

lixnaw wrote:is this what you're looking for? http://www.overton.de/texte/pricelist.html

Has anyone played one of these Overton 10-holes? I count 9 holes in the front and two on the back. How the heck do you cover all of those suckers?

slowair · Post by **slowair** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:50 am

I'm kinda glad the whistle has only six holes. I can't imagine how I would hold on to it if it had more holes than that.

I think the real reason the whistle has been around so long, besides the fact that it is one of the most pleasant sounds in music, it that you can get one for $6.00 US and make beautiful music.

And besides, recorders are funny looking and smell like cheese. And their mother's wear army boots and come from New Jersey.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:42 am

The problem with recorders is that they sound like Susato whistles.

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