Comparison of new M&E R&R and old Dixon 3 piece

BmacD · Post by **BmacD** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:58 pm

The good news is there is no bad news. Both of these flutes are good buys but the more you pay the more you get.After only a couple of hours with the new M&E I can feel the beginnings of change in embouchure that will take months to mature.The embouchure for the M&E seems to need to be more relaxed than for the Dixon. For me this means I can play in the second octave easier, with less effort. The effort to get a solid low D is to get the lips relaxed enough to get that "oboe" buzz. It's happened but I can't really control it yet.
Finger stretch and hole size- This seems like a good flute for those of us with small hands. The finger stretch is mm or two less for both hands on the M&E than on the Dixon. The hole size is a mm or so larger on the M&Eon most holes. Maybe this accounts for the increased volume over the Dixon.
Maintainance- Generally none. Even the tenons require nothing other than a little grease . The tenons are turned from the same delrin the flute is made of,no thread to wrap or corks to dry out . So grease the tenons, put it together and play. Swab drool as needed.
Even if I move up to a LeHart or another wood flute , this instrument will always be sitting out and ready to play immediatly.
I have found a new favorite possession.
Bruce

nickt · Post by **nickt** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:37 am

I got my M&E yesterday and had a go last night - I agree 100%! Having never played a flute I was amazed at how strong the notes are and how you need to control the embouchure to get the most from it. Great flute (and I have already ordered a Lehart!)

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:26 am

Bruce - I'm so jealous! You got your new M&E well before my Seery is expected to arrive (could be up to 6 weeks more - be proud of me since I haven't mentioned how impatient I am in 2-3 weeks now!).

It sounds like the M&E is the right direction for you. You bought the new R&R model didn't you? Do you find it easier to half-hole notes with the larger holes? Can you cross finger accidentals very well on the M&E (I've always found this to be a strength on the Dixon)?

Eric

BmacD · Post by **BmacD** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:25 pm

Nickt- When I saw your post about ordering a M&E R&R to pass the time while waiting for the LeHart it was the only time I wished for more overtime at work. As Jayhawk knows, the Dixon is a good buy but you are fortunate in being able to skip the Dixon "step".
Eric-I'm looking forward to your comparison of the Seery to the Dixon. I
have not tried halfholing the M&E R&R yet. I've found the fingering chart from M&E's website to be all I've needed up to now. When I try to optimise fingering for fast passages we'll see if half holing will be useful.
Best
Bruce

Cariad · Post by **Cariad** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:51 pm

Hmmm! All the above is very interesting to me!

My 3 piece Dixon arrived this morning but I was already so late for work I had to wait until lunch break to try it out in the car - aaah the wait was worse than waiting for the flute to actually get here!!!

Like my old friend Nickt above, I've also ordered a Lehart (5 key) which won't be ready till next February. Since I'm new to simple system flutes I figured I can learn and practise on the Dixon till the Lehart is ready. I was so pleased I can reach all the holes and I also found the Dixon really easy to get the notes out - now I just have to work at making them sound good and get my fingers really working!

Someone mentioned fingering charts on the web - is this to get all the cross fingering I've heard so much about but haven't learnt yet? Does anyone know if the site mentioned above is the best one to use?

By the way Bruce, what does the 'tn' in your location mean (west tn)?

Cariad (from a little white cottage in the middle of nowhere in West Wales)

madfifer9 · Post by **madfifer9** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:15 pm

Hi, all,

I've been following this thread with interest. I recently acquired a 3pc Dixon, and though I do like it very much, it is very quiet compared to my blackwood Ormiston. However, the durability take-anywhere factor is a big plus. As I continue practicing on the Dixon, I'll let you know how things progress.

I noticed something odd only a few days ago. I was watching myself in the mirror as I whistled (the kind without a whistle

), and I noticed the opening of my lips where the sound comes out is off-center! I tried fifing in another position relative to the opening today, and I sounded different! I've watched myself play the flute in the mirror, but can't really see the opening because, obviously, I'm blowing down. Something else new to work on, too!

madfifer9

BmacD · Post by **BmacD** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:40 pm

Hi Cariad,
I'm sure you will enjoy the Dixon. It was my first Irish flute after starting with a pvc flute and some bamboo flutes {which I still enjoy}.
The fingering chart I use is found at http://www.irishflutes.net/mef/Fingerings.htm . Michael Cronnelly posted a chart for his flutes that seems to work on the Dixon- at least the few I have tried.
It would be interesting to compare finger spacing on the Dixon and the LeHart. It seems that most players are really concerned about the stretch for the ring finger on the right hand . I don't have a problem there because I use my little finger instead. My problem is with the same ring finger stretch on the left hand.The little finger solution is awkward for me on the left hand.
As to the TN in west TN-- it's our postal code for the state of Tennessee. Tennessee is so long east to west{an 8 hour drive at 60 mph} we divide it into three sections, east ,middle and west. Pictures I've seen of Wales remind me of middle Tennessee, which from my home is only 30 minuets away.
Best ,
Bruce

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:03 pm

This is my favorite fingering chart:

http://www.woodenflutemaker.com/SAFluteFinger22.htm

It gives nearly every alternative fingering I can think of. It does seem like it goes backward to me, but you get the hang of it pretty easily.

The Dixon is not the worlds loudest flute, but it's design is so much more like a small hole Rudall than a Pratten or larger holed Rudall. I've gotten more volume with time, and it's more than loud enough for my small session with another flute, a bodhran, a fiddle, and a piano accordion. Plus, it does cross-finger very well which allows for playing a lot of classical and baroque pieces which I like to do.

BTW - Have I mentioned I've still got up to 6 weeks to wait for my new toy???

Oh well, don't forget to give us an update Bruce when you and your new flute get to know each other better!

Eric

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:05 pm

It seems that most players are really concerned about the stretch for the ring finger on the right hand . I don't have a problem there because I use my little finger instead. My problem is with the same ring finger stretch on the left hand.The little finger solution is awkward for me on the left hand.

Bruce are you writing that your covering the fourth hole with your left hand pinkie?

eilam

BmacD · Post by **BmacD** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:11 pm

Madfifer9- it would be interesting to know how much differance in size there may be in the hole size between the Dixon and the Ormiston. The small increase in size of the holes in the M&E R&R compared to the Dixon seems to make a very decided increase in loudness.
Jayhawk- my experiance with the Dixon seems to match your own in most ways. I noticed the Dixon got louder as I gained experiance.
Eilam-sorry I wasn't more clear about the pinkie thing.No, I don't use the left pinkie on the fourth hole.On the Sunreed Instruments {Zacciah Blackburn} bamboo D I was able use the left pinkie on the third hole in what has to be the oddest grip in flutedom. I do use the right pinkie on the sixth hole of all the flutes in my little collection, even though after a year of playing its not really necessary now.

madfifer9 · Post by **madfifer9** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 9:59 pm

The holes in the Ormiston 5 pc are slightly larger, except for the 2nd right, which is two whole mm larger! I was surprised to see that the bore on the Ormiston is actually smaller. With my fifes, the larger the bore the louder the fife.

I haven't played my Ormiston in a while... gee, I forgot how lovely it sounds! *sigh* The Ormiston is easier to play, that is, it has a quicker response. I have to work a lot harder at getting a reliable response out of the Dixon -- it is less forgiving.

madfifer9

BmacD · Post by **BmacD** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:07 pm

Madfifer9- I have noticed the same thing about the Dixons requirement for a focused embouchure. The first thing i had to do with the M&E was to relax my lips.The up side for me is better embouchure control than I had before the Dixon.And with my more relaxed embouchure is an increasing ability to get that low woody sound out my Sunreed bamboo flute.
In regards to the differance in bore diameter between the Dixon and the Ormiston, doesn't the Ormiston have two holes on top of the foot? If so those holes will make up for the smaller diameter at the end of the flute. Also, upon taking the Dixon apart at the head and M&E at the bottom of the tuning slide I found that the inside diameters were similar.Gotta love that Ormiston!
Bruce

madfifer9 · Post by **madfifer9** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:37 pm

Hi, Bruce,

My Ormiston does have those 2 holes in the foot joint. Aren't those holes for the C# and C keys? Theoretical ones, in my case.

Regarding focusing the embouchure, I have been working on this lately with my fife and noticed a marked difference right away. Now I need to do it with the flutes. I haven't been playing the flute much, which means back to long tones for intonation and embouchure focus. The problem is, I like to play fast!

Linda S.
madfifer9

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:05 am

I really like my Dixon. It's easy to blow and finger and so durable I don't worry about it at ren faires.

I notice it is much quieter then my bamboo flutes. One thing is if I start by playing my Sweetheart high D my playing on the Dixon is louder and more full. That's probably because it takes such tighter embrasure on the higher ones.

Anyway it's not much to say because I don't have another Irish flute to compare to.