Right on. Intellectual "property rights" are a fiction created in the 1960 to as part of a lobbying effort to alter the balance between the common domain and the "rights" holders in favor of the right's holder. "Traditional" my copyright.Caj wrote:
It's just a phrase. Sure everyone uses it, towit organizations like WIPO ("World Intellectual Property Organization.") But it's still just a phrase, and billions of people saying it won't turn copyrights into property rights.
New Policy: Copyrighted material
- Bloomfield
- Posts: 8225
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Location: Location:
/Bloomfield
Bloomfield wrote:Right on. Intellectual "property rights" are a fiction created in the 1960 to as part of a lobbying effort to alter the balance between the common domain and the "rights" holders in favor of the right's holder. "Traditional" my copyright.Caj wrote:
It's just a phrase. Sure everyone uses it, towit organizations like WIPO ("World Intellectual Property Organization.") But it's still just a phrase, and billions of people saying it won't turn copyrights into property rights.
1960 or 1845?
I am sorry. After all, we all make typos.
qui jure suo utitur neminem laedit
- Bloomfield
- Posts: 8225
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Location: Location:
You may be confounding the use of the phrase with the shift in its meaning. That Wikipedia article you link to even mentions that the phrase was typically put in quotation marks before the 1960s. Have a look at this: Mark Lemley, Property, Intellectual Property, and Free Riding (2004).talasiga wrote:Bloomfield wrote:Right on. Intellectual "property rights" are a fiction created in the 1960 to as part of a lobbying effort to alter the balance between the common domain and the "rights" holders in favor of the right's holder. "Traditional" my copyright.Caj wrote:
It's just a phrase. Sure everyone uses it, towit organizations like WIPO ("World Intellectual Property Organization.") But it's still just a phrase, and billions of people saying it won't turn copyrights into property rights.
1960 or 1845?
I am sorry. After all, we all make typos.
/Bloomfield
The American Justice Woodbury did not use quotation marks
and the wikiwookie article cites him as the first to coin the term.
Once again see 1845.
As I said earlier the "traditional meaning" covered copyrights and has recently expanded to cover patents and industrial related design matters.
My usage of the term in the context of a discussion of copyright is not erroneous though contention may attach to it amongst certain scholars.
Similarly, some scholars may find the term "Bill of Rights" contentious on the basis of legalistic pedanticism. That is their prerogative. But we still know what is meant by the term.
Thousands of solicitors and barristers in Australasia, Great Britain and probably Ireland also, would recognise what is meant by the umbrella term "Intellectual Property" and if the US was a signatory to TRIPS agreement, any US lawyer conversant with copyright law would be aware of it too.
I think Dale is corrrect to not allow full quotes of exotic articles without the author's position. I would have taken that for granted. It is not a policy matter for Dale for he has no discretion. He is beholden to not allow it in his forums and to make sure it doesn't happen.
and the wikiwookie article cites him as the first to coin the term.
Once again see 1845.
As I said earlier the "traditional meaning" covered copyrights and has recently expanded to cover patents and industrial related design matters.
My usage of the term in the context of a discussion of copyright is not erroneous though contention may attach to it amongst certain scholars.
Similarly, some scholars may find the term "Bill of Rights" contentious on the basis of legalistic pedanticism. That is their prerogative. But we still know what is meant by the term.
Thousands of solicitors and barristers in Australasia, Great Britain and probably Ireland also, would recognise what is meant by the umbrella term "Intellectual Property" and if the US was a signatory to TRIPS agreement, any US lawyer conversant with copyright law would be aware of it too.
I think Dale is corrrect to not allow full quotes of exotic articles without the author's position. I would have taken that for granted. It is not a policy matter for Dale for he has no discretion. He is beholden to not allow it in his forums and to make sure it doesn't happen.
qui jure suo utitur neminem laedit
- Caj
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Binghamton, New York
- Contact:
From the article: "However, worldwide use of the term was uncommon until actively promulgated by the World Intellectual Property Organization after WIPO's establishment in 1967."
It really reads as if Bloomfield is right---the phrase was "actively promulgated" in the 1960s by copyright holders. Why does it matter that the term was used sporadically before that?
Again, none of this really matters to matters of law: if WIPO and 30 million other people decided to start calling copyright infringement "murder," it wouldn't change the law either. The buzzwords of WIPO do not carry the force of federal law.
Caj
- Bloomfield
- Posts: 8225
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Location: Location:
The reason for promoting the term "intellectual property" over the traditional phrase "exclusive rights" was to be able to call infringement theft and to get the public and the Congress behind the push to subsidise rights-holders. "Infringement" sounds technical. "Theft" sounds wrong and evil.
/Bloomfield
- Nanohedron
- Moderatorer
- Posts: 38239
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Been a fluter, citternist, and uilleann piper; committed now to the way of the harp.
Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
- Bloomfield
- Posts: 8225
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Location: Location:
Allow me.jim stone wrote:God, no! Please do let us know what you decide about this
one anyway, whatever else you do.
1. Do not post entire copyrighted articles in chiffboard posts. Excerpts, with attribution and link, are fine.
2. Do not discuss this policy every time you abide by it.
(That no. 2 is mine, I confess.)
/Bloomfield
- dwinterfield
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:46 am
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Boston
Sounds like one of those "Man Law" beer commericals.Bloomfield wrote:Allow me.jim stone wrote:God, no! Please do let us know what you decide about this
one anyway, whatever else you do.
1. Do not post entire copyrighted articles in chiffboard posts. Excerpts, with attribution and link, are fine.
2. Do not discuss this policy every time you abide by it.
(That no. 2 is mine, I confess.)
- Caj
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Binghamton, New York
- Contact:
I think the only reason one might avoid posting a whole article in a thread is the effect on readability, or the convenience of other readers.
Legally, I wouldn't worry about it. Posting a whole article in an online newsletter is a different matter. Or posting a whole article on a news site. That is much different from posting an article within a discussion.
Especially since under the DMCA, the web site owner is shielded from liability if someone complains, under the safe harbor provisions.
In the end, I typically link to an article if it aids readability, or quote a whole section if it's inconvenient to send people to another website.
Caj
Legally, I wouldn't worry about it. Posting a whole article in an online newsletter is a different matter. Or posting a whole article on a news site. That is much different from posting an article within a discussion.
Especially since under the DMCA, the web site owner is shielded from liability if someone complains, under the safe harbor provisions.
In the end, I typically link to an article if it aids readability, or quote a whole section if it's inconvenient to send people to another website.
Caj
I very much hope this policy is going to be rescinded.Caj wrote:I think the only reason one might avoid posting a whole article in a thread is the effect on readability, or the convenience of other readers.
Legally, I wouldn't worry about it. Posting a whole article in an online newsletter is a different matter. Or posting a whole article on a news site. That is much different from posting an article within a discussion.
Especially since under the DMCA, the web site owner is shielded from liability if someone complains, under the safe harbor provisions.
In the end, I typically link to an article if it aids readability, or quote a whole section if it's inconvenient to send people to another website.
Caj
In the past when we had somebody posting lots of long
things we handled that by Dale's asking him to
'throttle back.' I do not see a significant moral or
legal issue here.
- Nanohedron
- Moderatorer
- Posts: 38239
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: Been a fluter, citternist, and uilleann piper; committed now to the way of the harp.
Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps. - Location: Lefse country
I can think of an argument from a different angle: simple courtesy to all. Nothing more maddening than to have to wade past an epic where a link and an exerpt would suffice. The courtesy to the source is obvious enough.
"If you take music out of this world, you will have nothing but a ball of fire." - Balochi musician