Dale's Whistle Maker rules were detrimental to the site.

Post by **Dale** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:20 pm

cj wrote:I know others have suggested this, but maybe we should have a new part of the forum dedicated to just ads, sales, makers, etc. Mandolin Cafe has such a thing, and it seems to work well. This way, if folks don't want to read it, they can stay off that part of it.

This suggestion has been made many times and it is thoughtful and well-intended and fully appreciated. However, I am not going to do it on this board. As I've mentioned elsewhere, but won't detail, there are issues related to commercial use of the board because of the arrangements we have with the server site and storage. It's not a problem for the occasional commercial post, in keeping with the guidelines....it would be problem if we established an explicitly commercial area of this board.

Post by **Dale** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:28 pm

I'll make this proposal:

Any maker or any whistle vendor who wants to set up an email list into which people can opt to get updates can ask me to mention this in my newsletter, which goes out to about 3400 email addresses. I'll promote it if I know you and I believe you run a good and ethical biz. Serpent would be an example of someone I'd be delighted to do that for.

Furthermore, if anyone wants to set up a board somewhere on the Internet (a number of free web-based bulletin board programs are out there) to allow a forum for whistle makers and vendors to make commercial announcements, I'll promote that, too, in my newsletter, with a link on the links page of chiffandfipple, and with an "ANNOUNCEMENT" post on this board.

Dale

Parcour25 · Post by **Parcour25** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:35 pm

I pointed out that in my opinion, Dale made a serious error in judgement trying to micro-manage and regulate the discourse on this forum. As is typical of micromanagers, he came back to report that he was quite satisfied with the results of his action. Duh! What else would he say? What you need Dale, even though you surely mind me saying so, is a seperate board for all this off topic nonsense and regulate that. Leave the whistle conversations alone. I hate it when the zebra's (the referees) throw flags and decide the outcome of the game. Let them play. Counting posts and limiting speech to once a month or whatever you do is ridiculous.

I have seen this happen on many other forums. Moses reads too many of his own press releases and comes down with the Ten Commandments of behavior. Everybody who was free to speak and act before is now choked with recriminations. Dale, the feedback of the members is more than sufficient to regulate the discussions. Then the owners get involved and start setting rules there is a subliminal muting effect. I say that because I saw it happen here, right before my very eyes.

I cannot believe that several members here will actually shout down and criticize the whistle makers the way they do. One guy talks proudly about his new product and his accused of God-forbid, advertising, another guy is happy to offer a new CD and he is accused of trying to what, make money? The childishness and immaturity here is pitiful. You guys had a good thing once. You lost it. You killed the golden goose.

Whiners 1 - Whistlemakers 0

Rando7 · Post by **Rando7** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:49 pm

Parcour25 wrote:
I have seen this happen on many other forums. Moses reads too many of his own press releases and comes down with the Ten Commandments of behavior.

You were there for that?

Parcour25 · Post by **Parcour25** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:53 pm

Why yes, yes I was.... we called him Mopey.

Post by **Dale** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:53 pm

Parcour,

From time to time, I break my own rules. I'm only human. I have a rule about civility on this board. I'm about to break it.

Let me respectfully suggest that you kiss my ass.

Sincerely,

Dale

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:57 pm

Dear friends,

The kinds of commercial or semi-commercial posts I particularly like are the ones where the whistlemaker interacts with members of the board.

If a maker has a truly new product to announce (not just a new color or price or the head from whistle A will now be available on whistle B), I like to see those threads. The members react to the new product, ask questions and offer suggestions. It's very interesting and informative.

Or a maker asks the board for feedback or help in developing a product, maybe posting pictures or clips.

And of course, there are the threads, which I don't believe are controversial at all, that are initiated by someone commenting or asking about a particular kind of whistle, and the maker chimes in and answers questions in a helpful and not self promoting way.

All three kinds of commercial and semi-commercial threads benefit the whole world of whistling and add to the choices available to whistlers.

Messages announcing a discount, a contest, the new whistle bag, the new color selection, etc. don't contain any real news or content that legitimately calls for the members' participation. Those are more the kind I would like to see limited to once a month posts.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Parcour25 · Post by **Parcour25** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:01 pm

Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to decline, there will be plenty of others who will happily take you up on it though...

BTW - I did say this is only my opinoin, - and I do agree with Jerry's last remarks.

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:07 pm

Jerry Freeman wrote:
serpent wrote:I don't want the durn board to be overrun with Ginsu Whistle ads, either, Jerry, but I also don't want to have to wade through the hundreds of OT posts, which don't seem to bother you nearly as much as some maker enthusing over a couple of new goodies. You want to know why most of the other makers shut up? Hostility from the very people we're trying to tell about the products they're supposedly interested in. Talk about a paradox!

Best wishes to you, too!
serpent
Bill, I think you're misunderstanding me.

I've never said I object to your or anyone else's commercial posts. I've never posted a single word to that effect.

I would actually like to see more of the kinds of posts you put up, if there's any way to do it without people getting bent out of shape over them.

The main thing I'm trying to say is, I would like to see a way to accomodate all kinds of posts, except for openly abusive ones, including commercial posts, right here on ChiffandFipple. I don't like the idea that someone would have to link outside the board to say something about a new whistle they've dreamed up.

I've never been attracted to the C&F clone, parallel universe site, and I would prefer not to see it cannabalize C&F because of commercial posting policies.

Best wishes (sincerely),
Jerry

Okay, okay, so I was being a bit liverish again. And I did misinterpret your post, Jerry, and I firmly apologize for doing so. Sincerely.

I don't know if Az is right or not. He and I have always enjoyed a friendly adversarial relationship, and, Azalin, you mean (if accurate) ol' thing, I was just trying in my inimitably rabble-rousing way,

to Make a Point.

Guys and gals, I don't like ads. I don't like reading them, and I don't like making them. And, above all, I know that if I post ads here, a number of you won't buy my whistles just because I did! Kind of reverse of the way I want things to go.

Yes, some, if not most, of my posts, have some hint of the commercial in them, but honestly, all I want to do is to make you aware when I do something I think is neat, or to give you the opportunity to participate in a fund-raiser (I keep NONE of the money on those), or to offer you a nice bargain once in a while. When the current sale ends tomorrow night, you won't see another for a good long while.

That said, I will probably continue, from time to time, to do stuff to my whistles, mostly, I imagine, in the line of adding colours and other treatments to the Polly line. But I won't bang on about it - I'll mention it, and tell you that if you wish, you can go see 'em on my site.

I want my posts to be fun and informative, and above all, fun. Playing whistles is fun, and acquiring them is fun, and so is looking at them, and chewing them up and spitting them out in reviews, if they deserve it! I love Chiff and Fipple, and I don't want to hurt the board, or drive people away by being nasty, or by posting blatant ads. I don't think telling folks about nifty things does that.

Anyhow, cut me and the other makers who enthuse (and even those who don't, for whatever reason) a little slack. We're none of us going to inundate the board with ads - there ain't enough of us to do that, for one thing, and for another, NONE of us want to alienate our prospective clientele.

And if you do an Off-Topic post about the Outer Hebrides being overrun by badgers, for example, I, for one, will NOT tell you to shut up.

Interesting world, ain't it!

Cheers AND Best Wishes, and I really mean it!

serpent

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:10 pm

Regarding Dales comment about a whistlemakers board, actually one already exists.

It's at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whistlemakers/
There's about 54 members but it is somewhat dormant these days. Sean Fuller is the moderator.

totst · Post by **totst** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:37 pm

so much fuss...
But whos stopping anyone from leaving if they dont like it here? Put up your own site and make your own rules,if you cant stand it here. Staying means agreeing to the rules put up by the moderators, simple as that.

Tots

CHIFF FIPPLE · Post by **CHIFF FIPPLE** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:45 pm

Whistles are fun

So what part of F U N don't you guys understand
Although ma'be its all the posturing thats fun

ah itwill be the Rut don't ya know.

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:57 pm

Parcour, werent you supposed to leave the board? Maybe I misunderstood the "cheow baby"! Since you're still here, that board isnt *that* bad after all, is it?

CHIFF FIPPLE · Post by **CHIFF FIPPLE** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:27 pm

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:55 pm

DaleWisely wrote:....Let me respectfully suggest that you kiss my ass.

That sorta has a nice ring to it!

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Dale's Whistle Maker rules were detrimental to the site.

Re: References to circular references... :)