Estate Auction Pipes - with pictures

[chaos97]

I'm sorry if this is slightly off topic, but can somebody explain to me how an estate auction works? In particular, how do you know when they are happening? And how did/do you know that there are going to be instruments involved? This seems like quite a find. Are many old sets found through these types of auctions?

[RLines]

Estate auctions, like standard auctions, are typically administered by professional auction firms who catalogue the items and organise the sale, as well as conduct the auction itself, taking commission on the sales. Just look up local auction houses in your area. Many of them will post their catalogues online these days. Some others will even allow you to register your interest in particular items and be notified when they appear for sale.

Here in a big city like London there are loads of these auctions, often with instruments of varying quality included among the items for sale. I just barely lost out on a lovely old concertina at my local auction house last month, and am still kicking myself for not being more bold in my bidding! However most of what you see are strings, brass and other woodwinds, very very very rarely would you find Irish pipes, let alone a cache of the size and quality of this one. Mostly it's just lots of old furniture and kitchenware. That said, my 19th century C sharp set was found at a London estate sale in 2010, not by myself but by the antique dealer I acquired the set from. I know of at least a couple of other old sets in Ireland and England that have been discovered in similar auctions in recent years.

Congrats on this Seth. It's always exciting just to know that there are still treasures like this out there waiting to be discovered.

Rick

[Doogie]

Estate auctions, like standard auctions, are typically administered by professional auction firms who catalogue the items and organise the sale, as well as conduct the auction itself, taking commission on the sales. Just look up local auction houses in your area. Many of them will post their catalogues online these days. Some others will even allow you to register your interest in particular items and be notified when they appear for sale.

Here in a big city like London there are loads of these auctions, often with instruments of varying quality included among the items for sale. I just barely lost out on a lovely old concertina at my local auction house last month, and am still kicking myself for not being more bold in my bidding! However most of what you see are strings, brass and other woodwinds, very very very rarely would you find Irish pipes, let alone a cache of the size and quality of this one. Mostly it's just lots of old furniture and kitchenware. That said, my 19th century C sharp set was found at a London estate sale in 2010, not by myself but by the antique dealer I acquired the set from. I know of at least a couple of other old sets in Ireland and England that have been discovered in similar auctions in recent years.

Congrats on this Seth. It's always exciting just to know that there are still treasures like this out there waiting to be discovered.

Rick

Thank you Rick, People seem to be most interested in the flat chanters which I've been told are possibly Egan and Kenna but their are no makers marks. I got a reed in them today and the Boxwood flat chanter which is keyed close to Ennis's chanter sounds sweet. I need to rethink the reed design for such a very old chanter but I do know that they play and sound sweet. I haven't yet reeded the Taylor and Taylor type chanters yet as my standard D reed doesn't fit this chanter well which is probably because I use tube staples but the good thing is these pipes came with an old reed and a spare rolled staple to give me a guide.

I was going to sell these flat chanter to help me recoupe the cost of the money I spent traveling and at the auction but these may be hard to part with. I didn't know they would sound so sweet.

More later.

[tommykleen]

...You're killing us here. You know that.

[mke_mick]

The round knob on the one popping valve with the brand name is pretty amusing. Sanford and Pollow made bicycle gas lamps.

Hmm, I wonder if it's a coincidence that Sanford & Pollow was based in Chicago, and so was Pat Hennelly, a noteworthy maker of sometimes-fanciful but always Tayloresque pipes?

I agree with Mr. Kleen, your good luck is almost too much for some of us to bear!

Best regards,
Mick Bauer

[ausdag]

Egan... Kenna. I'm really not 100% familiar with these names but I have heard them before.

Time for a little light reading - on the double! :

http://www.seanreidsociety.org/SRSJ2/ch ... esign.pdf‎

An extract to whet your appetite:

"The work of the Kennas was of the very finest. The crispness of the turning and the
quality of the metal work, either in brass or silver, was most professional. At no
period since has work of such an exquisite nature been offered to the piping public." (Wooff.G)

[Doogie]

The round knob on the one popping valve with the brand name is pretty amusing. Sanford and Pollow made bicycle gas lamps.

Hmm, I wonder if it's a coincidence that Sanford & Pollow was based in Chicago, and so was Pat Hennelly, a noteworthy maker of sometimes-fanciful but always Tayloresque pipes?

I agree with Mr. Kleen, your good luck is almost too much for some of us to bear!

Best regards,
Mick Bauer

Hennelly is a name that I've not heard yet. I need to look that one up. Trust me I didn't get this stuff for free, lol. I'm going to have to sell some of this stuff to recoupe some of the money I spent, I just need to figure out what to sell. Kirk Lynch said the Boxwood chanter is probably keyed close to Ennis's chanter and Ken McLeod said it's probably 1820-1840's and looks like Kenna work. It's really comfortable in the hands and is a little sharp of C. I'll probably measure that chanter and sell it. Seth

[uillmann]

Do you know who it was that all this stuff belonged to?

[tompipes]

At a guess I'd say that chanter #2 could well be a Taylor original. The fine metal work and nice turning on the ivory (or bone) looks like W Taylors very fine work.
The thing with William Taylors work is that it looks really good. I mean pristine. Compare the metal and wood work on chanter #2 and the others.
The workmanship stands out. In saying that the metal chanter is probably not Taylors work just cos it looks that little bit clunkey.
Probably Pat Hennely or Patsy Brownes work. Still a fine stick and worth a lot!
Also have a look pictures or the Patsy Touhey Taylor set on the NPU source site. You'll see great pictures of the really fine work.
I think others might agree that your chanter #2 is a Taylor stick. At least I would think is is anyway.
I don't know about the boxwood chanter being a Kenna chanter. Kenna always stamped his/their work. I looks like one alright but bore measurements will solve that question. It might be a Ned White chanter too.

As regards the black chanter. I'd put a good bet on that being a Michael Egan chanter. The turning and original keys look like Egans work. It's been awkwardly repaired on the outside so who knows what the inside is like. But it could be fine too. A few bore probes will answer that. The throat shouldn't be much wider than 4mm.

Regardless it's a great find! Well done Seth!!

Tommy

[mke_mick]

Hennelly is a name that I've not heard yet. I need to look that one up. Trust me I didn't get this stuff for free, lol.

See this thread for as much info on Mr. Hennelly as I've yet seen in one place. I'm pretty sure Patrick Sky knew him, and his "Manual For the Irish Uilleann Pipes" has pictures of at least one of Hennelly's sets (and Hennelly himself). You could try PM'ing Mr. Sky directly (username = "patsky") for more info.

Expensive good luck is still good luck, so fair play to you sir! Members of this forum are standing by, drooling in anticipation, as you decide which bits to sell off to fund the rest.

Unnecessary, obvious advice: if you've ever thought of making flat chanters, and if those flat chanters in your haul turn out to be by Egan, Kenna (either sr. or jr.) or both, you'll be wanting to hold on to those, or at least to measure them seven ways to Sunday, take X-rays, put them through an MRI scanner, etc. before letting them go.

Best regards,
Mick

[NicoMoreno]

Kenna always stamped his/their work.

Not always - at least not really early stuff. Joe Kennedy has a set that looks pretty similar, but older and rougher, than two other early Kenna sets. It could be that shortly after that set Kenna got a stamp and went a bit silly with his new-found ability.

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Kenna always stamped his/their work.

Not always - at least not really early stuff. Joe Kennedy has a set that looks pretty similar, but older and rougher, than two other early Kenna sets. It could be that shortly after that set Kenna got a stamp and went a bit silly with his new-found ability.

Going by memory here, but I think that refers to Kenna #1, not the later ones - Timothy and Thomas, who turned out keyed chanters with the distinctive blocks/keys. The early Kenna was keyless chanters exclusively - I think. Again, working strictly from memory. Ask Ken MacLeod about this stuff, or check out his writings. Also the exhaustive Seán Donnelly article on the Kennas/Coynes.

A chanter in that distinctive later style without a stamp is quite odd, and suspicious, like an excellent violin that says "Stradivarius."

Hennelly made pipes in Chicago, yes. His sets have a distinctive blockiness to them and maybe he fashioned these popping valves; you'd want to compare known work of his with these to make a tentative ID.

[NicoMoreno]

That's correct, Kevin, early James Kenna - worth keeping them all separate in this thread. By the way, I believe all three of the J Kenna chanters that passed through Joe's hands had keys.

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Fully keyed, or just the one/two? Looking at Ronan's handy photo gallery of James Kenna pipes only one chanter definitely has keys, or rather key - the high D. Interestingly enough years ago I was sent a picture of what looked for all the world like a Taylor chanter - in boxwood - with only the high C and D keys. Same turnings, shape, big keyblocks, popping valve, T shaped top.

One of Ronan's chanters looks like it might have blocks for a key, can't tell if it's actually on there. Anyways I thought J Kenna's stuff was all early Union pipes in style - 4 drones, 1 reg, 1 or two 2 keys on the chanter at most, D/Eb. You'd not expect to find a C# chanter on there, and definitely not one with the full compliment of keys like this 'un.

Two James Kennas, including the 1 key chanter, in this dogpile of sets.. Na Píobairí Uilleann Source gallery of JK set - the same 1 key job, it looks like.

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

Going back to Taylor, I forgot that there's a photo gallery of a Patrick Hennelly set over at NPU Source, along with bona fide Taylor and just about anyone else who fired up a lathe back in the old days. Hennelly died in the 1970s so kinda sorta old days in his case. NPU Source's photos are a great resource for anyone who wants to be able to tell these makers' work apart.