PhilO wrote:All following me should consider themselves quite lucky, as I once HIGHJACKED a touring whistle; that's right I did it and am forever happy about it! of course, after considerable begging and threats (to my own self), the whistle maker gave in and provided me an extraordinary deal.
Don't be coy and just tease us. What was the whistle in question?
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
Tell us something.: I play high and low whistle with Traditional Irish Music being my focus of interest. I love Irish music and consider it as a direct connection to my Irish heritage. I enjoy participation in whistle tours, chatting with other players, and learning much from the many talented folks that frequent C & F.
"TEAM TRAD" Pro Staff
Official Life Member of DUBLIN DUCK DYNASTY
"Joanie Madden, Mary Bergin, and Andrea Corr, each a Whistle Goddess in her own right"!
Oh alright. It was an Oz soprano D in delrin with sterling silver hardware - all around one of the most beautiful, fun to play, delicious sounding whistles on the planet.
Philo
"This is this; this ain't something else. This is this." - Robert DeNiro, "The Deer Hunter," 1978.
The whistles have arrived in Dartmouth, MA and are slowly warming to room temp after spending the morning in the cargo hold of a marginally heated mail truck. Maybe by late this evening they'll be ready for breath. They were sturdily packed with the only damage to the carton being some marks where apparently the post master had to pry the package out of Cayden's reluctant grip.
However, under the heading of "I didn't do it" — a close inspection of the F whistle as it came out of the packing showed a small crack on the top of the beak, just to the right (looking at in playing position) of the center line. It extends for about 1/4 from the northern end of the beak southward. Looking at the end of the whistle, it appears to extend through to the windway but it's really too dark in there to see whether it shows on the top of the windway. The crack is not open at all and probably won't affect playing on the tour, but goes again to the question of whether this wood is the best, long term long-term choice for the mouthpiece. The crack is sufficiently tight and limited in length that I'm not sure I can get a good photo, however if Mr. Ellis would like one I can try and then email the results to him.
I'll plan on keeping the whistles through a session next Friday and getting them in the mail next Saturday morning to Retired.
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
Tell us something.: Crafting fine quality folk flutes from around the world since 1997, my goal is to create beautiful instruments that have the best possible voice, tuning and response by mixing modern methods with traditional designs.
Don't fret the crack. As we've established, the ebony is not the best material for the mouthpiece (I've discontinued it and replaced it with African Blackwood that has been pre-shrunk and stabilized), so future whistles won't have it. As long as it is playable we can carry on with the tour.
The Ellis Whistle 2.0 is being created a bit differently (with tuning slides!). This allows me to make the body in two pieces which allows them to fit into my microwave kiln for pre-shrinking and stabilization. I'm confident that the laminated mouthpiece will not be the Achilles heel in the future. I have future plans that include a vacuum kiln and resin injection for more streamlined stabilization of wooden parts.
After some experimentation I've opted for a minimum disruption tenon (ala Terry McGee) for the whistle body. It will function as a slide and eliminate the metal/wood relationship. Hopefully, the necessary thickening of the wood at the joint will not adversely affect the performance or voice. I'm pretty sanguine about this design and I'll probably recruit a volunteer or two to test it out when it's ready
Geoffrey Ellis wrote:Don't fret the crack. ... As long as it is playable we can carry on with the tour.
As I mentioned, at this point it's only a very minor crack, not open at all and shouldn't affect playability in the least. I suspect that it was from temperature changes during shipping and not anything any of the tour reviewers did. (Cayden, I've got your back.)
Geoffrey Ellis wrote: I'm pretty sanguine about this design and I'll probably recruit a volunteer or two to test it out when it's ready
I did a search and this is only the fifth time the word "sanguine" has been used in this forum in the past eleven years. If you are going to circulate a new, improved model, maybe I should just keep these and you can send the new model out for the rest of the tour.
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
Tell us something.: I play high and low whistle with Traditional Irish Music being my focus of interest. I love Irish music and consider it as a direct connection to my Irish heritage. I enjoy participation in whistle tours, chatting with other players, and learning much from the many talented folks that frequent C & F.
I sent Geoffrey a PM on this issue. He is taking the right path with regard to alternative material and design considerations. The results should be an incredible and tunable whistle of beauty.
Cheers,
Cayden
"TEAM TRAD" Pro Staff
Official Life Member of DUBLIN DUCK DYNASTY
"Joanie Madden, Mary Bergin, and Andrea Corr, each a Whistle Goddess in her own right"!
Tell us something.: Crafting fine quality folk flutes from around the world since 1997, my goal is to create beautiful instruments that have the best possible voice, tuning and response by mixing modern methods with traditional designs.
Geoffrey Ellis wrote:Don't fret the crack. ... As long as it is playable we can carry on with the tour.
As I mentioned, at this point it's only a very minor crack, not open at all and shouldn't affect playability in the least. I suspect that it was from temperature changes during shipping and not anything any of the tour reviewers did. (Cayden, I've got your back.)
Geoffrey Ellis wrote: I'm pretty sanguine about this design and I'll probably recruit a volunteer or two to test it out when it's ready
I did a search and this is only the fifth time the word "sanguine" has been used in this forum in the past eleven years. If you are going to circulate a new, improved model, maybe I should just keep these and you can send the new model out for the rest of the tour.
Best wishes.
Steve
That sounds like no problem. As I told Cayden, those whistles were made using the same piece of ebony, and its looking like it had a fissure (which ebony is prone to in my experience). Natural stresses revealed the weak spot.
I didn't realize sanguine was such a rare word! Who knew? Chalk it up to my mother (an English Lit major in college) who worked hard to make her sons a bunch of pretentious writers. To give you an idea, I'm named after Geoffrey Chaucer
I’ve had the Ellis whistles for my allotted time and offer the following thoughts to what has already been expressed….
First, some words on my background and qualifications (or lack thereof) regarding whistles. I’ve played for 4-5 years, mostly upper register D instruments but have dabbled in lower pitches. I’ve owned low Ds by MacNeil, and Hoover, and presently own and play an MK pro (in shiny green if it matters). I’d have to classify myself as an intermediate player.
I was particularly interested in Geoffrey Ellis’ excursion into the “Irish” whistle field because of my familiarity with his Native American flutes. I have fairly extensive experience with Native American instruments, both “contemporary” (machine made and tuned to European scales) and “traditional/historic” (hand-carved and tuned to the maker’s whims). I wanted to see how Mr. Ellis’ NAf experience translated to the whistles to which this forum is addressed.
There’s an advantage to being several steps down in the reviewing process. Many, if not most, of the characteristics of the whistles have been introduced and discussed. Consequently, I can pretty much run through the checklist and offer minor additions:
Visual
As mentioned by other reviewers, and shown in the photos, both whistles are lovely to behold.
Craftsmanship
They are nicely crafted and superbly finished with considerable attention to detail.
Materials
The woods that comprise the tubes of the whistles are attractive and very light. The issue of use of ebony for the head of the whistle and resultant cracks (quite possibly from temperature changes during shipping and not from playing) has been discussed. One of the advantages of a tour like this is that it provides this kind of feedback to the makers. Mr. Ellis has already indicated that he intends to explore the use of African blackwood on the mouthpieces in place of ebony. I understand the sense of “spirit of the wood” (particularly prevalent in NAfs), but would add my voice to the suggestion that Delrin (or its equivalent) be considered for this, the most stressed, portion of the instrument.
Design/mouth piece comfort
I found the mouthpiece comfortable and had no issues adjusting to it from the smaller high D whistles or the MK low D that I usually play. I found that both rested comfortably on my lower lip and I had no difficulty with air leakage at the corners.
Playing comfort
I found both whistles to be very comfortable to play. They are quite comparable in weight to aluminum whistles I’ve played (I didn’t weigh them) and there was no strain playing for an extended period. As has been mentioned, the finish provides a good grip with no slipping at all.
Volume
Most other reviewers have found these to be of moderate volume. When playing, I, found them to have a “soft” sound – not at all like metal whistles that I’ve played (more abut the “softness” later) but I really couldn’t judge whether that was just what I heard as the player as opposed to how well the sound projected. In a wholly unscientific test (wife in another room, washer/dryer going, “which is louder—#1 or #2”), three out of five times my wife thought the MK was louder, two times she thought the Ellis low D was louder. As I say, totally unscientific, but I’d suggest that maybe the projection capabilities of these whistles might be better than reflected in the previous comments. I’d be interested to hear back from other reviewers as to whether they were judging the volume as they were playing or whether they were listening to others play, and perhaps a more scientific estimate of volume would be in order.
Playing characteristics
I agree with previous reviewers that these instruments played with a moderate back pressure and allowed the player to “lean into” the notes (damn, it’s hard to write about sound). This, however, is one of the variables that could be adjusted in many ways by the maker and might vary from instrument to instrument. As others have mentioned, there was little effort required to move smoothly from one register to another. I found I had to put some greater effort on both whistles to hit the upper register B (or its equivalent on the F whistle) cleanly. I suspect that with more playing this would come naturally. Because I have dogs, I do not play into the third register. I use those notes solely to remove the coyotes from the yard on particularly noisy nights. I found that these whistles didn’t clog for me, even over extensive playing, and I’m a relatively wet blower. Whether this might change on a humid summer evening, I couldn’t say. I do tend to “water out” NAfs but they have a different sort of windway.
Intonation
When I first played the F whistle against Flutini, I was playing the lower register some 15–25 cents sharp while the upper register was no more than 10 cents sharp (so much for “leaning into” the lower register). With less push on my part both registers were right in tune. According to Flutini, all the notes on the low D were within 10 cents one way or another from right on. More playing on the instruments would probably bring all the notes to within the ability of my ears to hear perfect tuning.
Unlike metal and plastic whistles, I didn’t find changes in pitch as the whistles warmed up. They stayed stable for me from time of pick-up-from-the-desk to played-for-an-hour. A tuning slide would probably be beneficial—and Mr. Ellis is already planning for this—but frankly I don’t think it’s critical unless you have a fixed tuned (‘cordeen, keyboard, autoharp) playing partner that’s out of tune.
I had difficulty finding a fingered Cnat that was in tune, particularly on the low D. I normally half-hole the Cnat (my main high D is a Sindt) so I could work with that but found the OXX OOO and the OXO XXX fingerings to be 20-25 cents sharp—for the way I play. I’m not sure whether time would allow me to adjust or whether I’d just stick with half-holing. The Cnat on the F was much more accurate with either the OXX OOO or OXO XXX.
Nature of the sound
This is what I was most interested in—and is perhaps the hardest to describe. I really wanted to see how these whistles compared with the contemporary NAfs that I play. Previous reviewers have described the sounds as “woody”, “husky”, and “soft”, all terms I’d link to NAfs. None mentioned “crisp”, “clean”, or “metallic”. I’d agree with this for the low D. I found it to be soft-sounding, not cutting, and mellow as are most NAfs of that pitch. Not a bad thing at all, just not the “cosmic drainpipe” that some look for in a low whistle.
The F whistle, however, I’d consider “crisp” and rather brighter in sound than the low D. Still woody, mellow and NAf-ish, but more responsive and, well, crisper…
Bottom line
I like these whistles. They are attractive, they play well, they are durable enough to have made it through seven shipments and players. I expect that there will be two main questions for prospective buyers. Firstly, the price. There are any number of less expensive whistles available. Mr. Ellis is the best judge of how the price reflects the cost of materials and the amount of clearly skilled labor that goes into these instruments. Prospective buyers will have to look to their wallets, desires, and interest in a distinctive and highly attractive instrument to decide about purchases. Secondly, prospective players will have to decide how well they feel the sound of these whistles fits into their concept of traditional Irish music. It will be interesting to hear more response to these being played in sessions where other-than-whistlers’ input may be forthcoming. On the other hand, low whistles are a fairly recent entry into ITM and these may become an evolution in the low whistle sound.
Thanks to Geoffrey Ellis for sending around these prototypes. I’ve enjoyed my time with them, as apparently have others. I hope the feedback helps him to refine his whistles and opens a market for him. I have to say, I'm not all that eager to give them up.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
Steve, thanks for sharing your perspective particularly in relation to NAFs.
Steve Bliven wrote:I’d be interested to hear back from other reviewers as to whether they were judging the volume as they were playing or whether they were listening to others play, and perhaps a more scientific estimate of volume would be in order.
My personal observation on the volume of these whistles comes from recording with them. I tend to use a similar set-up for recording whistles - same mic, preamp, interface, etc. So I draw my conclusions on how I set the levels to keep the meters from volume saturation. I found them to be neither loud nor particularly quiet - very nice for solo play - loud enough. The tone of these whistles makes a difference, I think, in how their volume is percieved.
Feadoggie
I've proven who I am so many times, the magnetic strips worn thin.
Feadoggie wrote:My personal observation on the volume of these whistles comes from recording with them. I tend to use a similar set-up for recording whistles - same mic, preamp, interface, etc. So I draw my conclusions on how I set the levels to keep the meters from volume saturation. I found them to be neither loud nor particularly quiet - very nice for solo play - loud enough.
That's a far better test than the wife-in-the-other-room method I used. I just wasn't sure whether what I was hearing while playing had any relation to what others would hear.
Feadoggie wrote:The tone of these whistles makes a difference, I think, in how their volume is perceived.
That may be the crux of the matter. They do have a "soft" sound, even if they do have the volume. I'm not sure how they would cut through the traditional cacophony of fiddles, pipes, cordeens, etc. during a session. For stage work, with a mike, they should be fine.
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
