Michael Jackson

[susnfx]

Somebody has to say it so I will. He was a very unpleasant and manipulative man who was, all in all, a bit of a waste of space. So carry on eulogising if you will.

I'm with you. Never liked him. Never liked his music.

Susan

[Nanohedron]

An odd evening, yesterday. Found out about it halfway through a bar gig, and at the end the sound guy announced the death and played MJ until closing. To be expected, of course. Back at home, seemed like almost everyone and his dog were driving around with MJ blasting out of their speakers, which wasn't all that weird, considering, but that each car contained an almost carnival-like atmosphere was. Went to another bar, and you guesses it: MJ on the sound system, and people whooping it up. What a strange mourning it was.

[s1m0n]

I was seventeen in the year of Thriller, and working in a furniture store. I was "the kid in the stockroom who can also come up and keep the chickenhawks in the store on Saturday". This was also the year of a major condo project on the edge of Toronto's Gay Village, and lots of fabulous men* needed cheap couches. And chicken. I didn't get it, but if I talked to them, they'd stay until the owner or the salesladies could get over and close something. The sad thing is that I was over thirty before I realized how beautiful I'd been at 18 or 20. Although gay men went on getting the wrong idea until I was 40. I went on leading them astray for 20+ years without ever having a clue why. Or how.

Thriller didn't do much for me, but I had my headshaking moment when one of the salesladies, on the far side of fifty, mused to me one day that she thought she was going to have to go and buy that record. The other saleslady, her best friend, but who was married to a poet (who wrote men's adventure novels for a living) shook her head and said "She's trendier than I am!" when I told her.

*They were exactly the generation AIDS was just about to devastate. We sold stylish but cheaply made furniture, but I bet it outlasted a lot more of them than I expected at the time.

[melonriel]

Very sad. When I lived in North Hollywood, saw him at the Mrs. Gooch's in Sherman Oaks. Two big body guards and a strange disguise. Exchanged smiles. Felt sorry for him not being able to go places and not be recognized. Screaming ladies in the produce section. This was weird to me. I wasn't much of a fan. Had one album, that's it. Just sad because he was young.

[fearfaoin]

A strange idea occurred. It involved Elvis,
the previous King of popular music. For
the next 40 years are there going to be
MJ sightings in all the tabloids? Will there
be conspiracy theories that his death was
faked? Might be weird times ahead.

[dwest]

I've seen Jimi, Janis, and Jim several times over the years. I'm fairly certain J. Edgar Hoover plus the CIA were behind their "disappearances."

[Denny]

ya know J. Edgar had issues about names starting with J...

[Cubitt]

Jackson was a man of modest talent who had very good people around him, mostly notably, Quincy Jones. He did not come up with the moon walk, btw. He was not a dancer - he did "moves." Now, what Frank Sinatra had to do to keep up wth Gene Kelly - that was dancing! Spinning around and moonwalking is not dancing. He was a one-trick pony, but he made the most of what he could do for awhile. Right place at the right time didn't hurt either. But a musical genius or a great contributor? Let's just say that I would never put him in the same category as Stevie Wonder. Now, when he passes, watch the dam that holds back our tears burst.

BTW, it so happens that some years back, I sold Michael two hand-made ceramic flutes. I wonder what he did with them?

[jim stone]

According to wiki, Jackson's foundation, Heal the World, 'sent millions of dollars around the globe to help children threatened by war and disease. The Dangerous World Tour began on June 27, 1992, and finished on November 11, 1993. Jackson performed to 3.5 million people in 67 concerts. All profits from the concerts went to the "Heal the World Foundation", raising millions of dollars in relief.[77][79] ... Following the illness and death of Ryan White, Jackson helped draw public attention to HIV/AIDS, something that was still controversial at the time. He publicly pleaded with the Clinton Administration at Bill Clinton's Inaugural Gala to give more money to HIV/AIDS charities and research.'

I believe jackson is counted as the celebrity who gave the most to charity. It would seem he saved countless
lives, especially the lives of children. Maybe 100,000 children's lives over his life, maybe more.

Call him a 'waste of space,'
but there would have been a lot more space on this planet if he'd never been.

Here he is in 1985, helping raise money for kids threatened by famine,
a tune he wrote with Lionel Richie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmxT21uFRwM

[Cubitt]

I believe jackson is counted as the celebrity who gave the most to charity. It would seem he saved countless
lives, especially the lives of children. Maybe 100,000 children's lives over his life, maybe more.

Call him a 'waste of space,'
but there would have been a lot more space on this planet if he'd never been.

Many evil people do good (especially if they are rich). Can't confirm MJ was evil, but I can't confirm OJ Simpson is, either.

[jim stone]

I think there is an issue of fairness here. It’s definitely worth reading
the details. In the first case in the wiki piece, Michael Jackson, cited earlier, certainly looks like a shakedown.
The kid, medicated by 'a sedative,' tells his father about the alleged sexual abuse. The father
than asks for money to drop charges while the kid's mother insists nothing wrongful happened.
Jackson, his health and sanity failing,
pays up, the father drops charges, the police drop the case because
there is insufficient evidence to proceed.
Here’s a bit from wiki on the second case, which went to court in 2005 (Jackson won)
about the family that charged him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson

J. C. Penney: alleged assault, litigation and psychiatric analysis

In August 1998 the Arvizo family were detained on a shoplifting charge at a J. C. Penney department store in West Covina, California. According to J. C. Penney, Gavin and Star Arvizo were sent out of the store by their father with an armload of stolen clothes, the family was detained and Janet started a "scuffle" with security officers. The shoplifting charge was dropped, but Janet filed a lawsuit for $3 million, saying that when she was detained she was "viciously beaten" by three security officers, one of whom was female.[8] The psychiatrist hired by J. C. Penney to evaluate Janet Arvizo found her to have rehearsed her children into supporting her story and to be both "delusional" and "depressed," although Janet's own doctor found her to be only the latter.[8] More than two years after the original alleged incident Janet added a further charge that one of the male officers had "sexually fondled" her breasts and pelvis area for "up to seven minutes".[8] Ultimately the department store settled out of court with the family for $137,000.[8]

........................................

Jackson befriended this kid, Gavin Anzio, several years later because
the boy had cancer and had had a kidney removed.
Jackson was paying for his medical treatment.

[mutepointe]

What I never hear people say that I always say is: After the first allegations, why would Michael put himself at risk by being alone with children in suspicious circumstances again and more importantly why oh why would parents let their children ever be alone with Michael. Is money worth that much to these parents?

[Redwolf]

What I never hear people say that I always say is: After the first allegations, why would Michael put himself at risk by being alone with children in suspicious circumstances again and more importantly why oh why would parents let their children ever be alone with Michael. Is money worth that much to these parents?

Well, for the first...from what I've heard, he was extremely naive (in many ways, almost childlike himself). The real question there is, why didn't his own people -- his family, friends, agent, lawyer, etc. -- tell him "Look, Michael, you just can't do this. Grown men cannot have 'sleepovers' with children and teenagers, and that's just the way it is. If you want to befriend children who need help, that's fine, but there are boundaries, and here's what they are"?

For the second, I would say that yes...some parents are exactly the kind of people who would put their kids through just about anything, and use just about anybody, to get what they want. It's sad to say, but true. Not all parents, to be sure...not even all that many, when compared to the numbers of loving parents out there...but enough. Actually, when you look at the sheer number of kids who have been through Neverland through the years, with only the two accusations, neither of which resulted in a conviction (and at least one of which was dropped as soon as sufficient money was offered), I for one find myself questioning the truth of those accusations.

Redwolf

[Cubitt]

What I never hear people say that I always say is: After the first allegations, why would Michael put himself at risk by being alone with children in suspicious circumstances again and more importantly why oh why would parents let their children ever be alone with Michael. Is money worth that much to these parents?

While you're at it, ask why someone would spend a week cavorting with his mistress and think his wife and the rest of the country wouldn't find out. Especially when his wife already knew he was having an affair.

Some people think the rules don't apply to them.

[jim stone]

What I never hear people say that I always say is: After the first allegations, why would Michael put himself at risk by being alone with children in suspicious circumstances again and more importantly why oh why would parents let their children ever be alone with Michael. Is money worth that much to these parents?

Well, for the first...from what I've heard, he was extremely naive (in many ways, almost childlike himself). The real question there is, why didn't his own people -- his family, friends, agent, lawyer, etc. -- tell him "Look, Michael, you just can't do this. Grown men cannot have 'sleepovers' with children and teenagers, and that's just the way it is. If you want to befriend children who need help, that's fine, but there are boundaries, and here's what they are"?

For the second, I would say that yes...some parents are exactly the kind of people who would put their kids through just about anything, and use just about anybody, to get what they want. It's sad to say, but true. Not all parents, to be sure...not even all that many, when compared to the numbers of loving parents out there...but enough. Actually, when you look at the sheer number of kids who have been through Neverland through the years, with only the two accusations, neither of which resulted in a conviction (and at least one of which was dropped as soon as sufficient money was offered), I for one find myself questioning the truth of those accusations.

Redwolf

And as to why he did it. I don't know but this is consistent with the evidence. Jackson couldn't
talk about his childhood without crying. He said that, as a child, he would throw up from fear
when he saw his father. As an adult, he was passionately devoted to helping children,
he gave many millions to charity for children, organized charities for children.
Neverland was created as part of Heal The Children, as a place for disadvantaged
children to find refuge, for sick or dying children--it had amusement park rides
and was meant as a paradise for children.

I think one of the 'children' who found it a paradise was Jackson himself,
who tried to have there the childhood he never had. A psychologist who saw
films of Jackson playing with children at Neverland testified that he
didn't seem at all like a pedophile, he seemed like a child, a
'regressed ten-year-old.' He had had a large family and he wanted to be a happy child
among other happy children in Neverland. If you look at the behavior
that got him into trouble, he was doing what children
do in a happy family, e.g. lie in bed together, watch TV,
and laugh their heads off. People who saw this, like his
friend Elizabeth Taylor, said that they never saw
anything inappropriate or odd. Children (e.g. Macauley
Culkin) testified at
his trial that they had slept many times in his room,
they would all just get tired and Jackson would say,
'You take my bed, I'll sleep on the couch' and
nothing else ever happened.

There was something there he wanted badly for himself, he didn't see that
there were sharks in the waters and then he had a hard time giving
it up. But so far there is no solid reason to think it was sex.
Perhaps it was a childhood.