Don't bother bringing them pipes

[Eldarion]

What instrument do orchestras tune to?Oboe..why ? because it has the tendancy like the pipes to alter pitch.

Well actually so do flutes and just about every wind instrument. Its actually because oboes have a pure penetrating tone that can be heard over many instruments, so everyone can check and unify their tuning. Many oboeists play that A note over an electric tuner to make sure they've got it at A=440.

But yeah I get the gist of what you're saying... its a bit tough to get 24 people to tune to a set of pipes though isn't it? 24 in a session is really 20 musicians too many..

[Cayden]

By the way I deleted the post David referred to in order to re-write it, never a good idea to post before 8 in the morning and expecting at the same tiem it is coherent. Will do so as soon as i have time.

I said it before on this forum, the orchestra tunes to the oboe because they don't have concertinas.

[Joseph E. Smith]

[PJ]

I don't think there is any instrument which is not affected in some way or other by temperature or humidity. Other than a bodhran, of course.

By the way, a few years back I was at a Liam Clancy concert. He has a very funny story about bringing a bodhran on a plane. The air on the aircraft was so dry that his bodhran split. The noise was like a large baloon being popped. Frightened the life out of everyone on board. Typical of bodhran players to strike fear into the hearts of those around them.

[Nanohedron]

I always have trouble deciding should I tune my gizmos to the pipes or the accordion if both are on hand and there's a bit of pitch difference. If the accordion is wet-tuned, I'm screwed.

More than once have I called for a tuning break and urged that everyone tune to the pipes (or box, depending on what's there), and gotten, "But I've already checked out my electronic tuner and I'm at concert pitch." :roll:

[Uilliam]

What instrument do orchestras tune to?Oboe..why ? because it has the tendancy like the pipes to alter pitch.

Its actually because oboes have a pure penetrating tone that can be heard over many instruments, so everyone can check and unify their tuning. Many oboeists play that A note over an electric tuner to make sure they've got it at A=440.

..

If an oboeist has to use an electronic tuner they shouldna be in an orchestra.From the beginning of orchestras it has been the oboe because of its tendancy to move FAR MORE than flutes etal the oboe is the weakest instrument in the pack as far as that goes, not because of pure tone which is a well believed myth.The principle is quite simple,tune to the weakest and everything will be fine,after all the strength of a chain relies on its weakest link.
If a full orchestra can tune to an oboe why can't 24 rag bag twang alongs tune to a set o pipes Its not rocket science.

(nb If a piano concerto is being played then a piano is used for the A.)
So if someone were to write an accordion concerto then they would have to tune to the accordion.
That kinda takes care o Peters notion about an accordion being used

[WannabePiper]

What instrument do orchestras tune to?Oboe..why ? because it has the tendancy like the pipes to alter pitch.

If an oboeist has to use an electronic tuner they shouldna be in an orchestra.From the beginning of orchestras it has been the oboe because of its tendancy to move FAR MORE than flutes etal the oboe is the weakest instrument in the pack as far as that goes, not because of pure tone although that would play a part in it.The principle is quite simple,tune to the weakest and everything will be fine,after all the strength of a chain relies on its weakest link.
If a full orchestra can tune to an oboe why can't 24 rag bag twang alongs tune to a set o pipes Its not rocket science.

(nb If a piano concerto is being played then a piano is used for the A.)That kinda takes care o Peters notion about an accordion being used

I played oboe in wind ensembles and orchestras for years and never considered myself to be the weakest link as far as tuning. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Uilliam]

keep yer hair on,the weakest link is simply an analogy!!! if ye want to turn it into an insult then that is your problem not mine.Put it simply then the oboe changes pitch most so it is used for tuning
Do I really have to cross the T's and dot the I's with ye??? :roll:

[WannabePiper]

No harm. I didn't take offense at all. Just saying that at least in my experience, the oboe actually had a much steadier and more reliable pitch than, say, the violins or brass. That's why we tuned to it, not the opposite. This may be an anomaly, I guess.

[Cynth]

http://www.bandsman.co.uk/brass013/msg00930.htm

"I have come across three general reasons why the oboe has been
historically used to tune the orchestra.

The overtone structure (number of harmonics as well as their relative
strengths) is more similar to that of the strings' in that there are far
more, and of greater individual intensity, than that of the other wind
instruments. A greater percentage of the acoustical energy of a given
note is distributed throughout the harmonics than of the fundament.
This allows the strings to match up their overtones with those of the
oboe more easily than with, say, the clarinet or the flute. The flute,
for instance, (and similarly the organ pipe) have relatively few and
quite weak overtones - nearly a pure sine wave. This is why pipe organs
have numerous ranks of 'lingual' (reeded) pipes to balance their
'labial' (open) pipes, and have entire sets of 'tierce' pipes to
individually reinforce the octave, fifth, seventh, etc. overtones of a
given fundament pipe.

The second reason I've heard is that 'back in the good old days' when
woodwind technology was not as good as it is now the tuning range of the
oboe was far less than in contemporary instruments. Thus the oboe,
being relatively fixed at one pitch, was tuned up or down to by the rest
of the orchestra. I can't, however, personally vouch for the accuracy
of my information on these limitations to the early oboe.

The third reason is related to the first in that, as a result of the
timbre of the oboe, its sound 'cuts' through the general hubbub of the
orchestra and can therefore be heard by everyone in the room.

Interestingly enough, the characterization of the oboe's sound as being
the "purest' is diametrically opposite of what you would expect by the
use of that term. A sine wave is by definition a pure note: 100% of the
acoustical energy is in the fundament. The oboe sounds like an oboe
precisely because it has a greater percentage of its acoustical energy
distributed amongst its harmonics as compared to its fundament - check
it out with your pocket spectrum analyzer. Assuming, of course, a good
player; otherwise it just sounds like a duck! (wry grin)."


The oboeist must have to tune to something---if not an electronic tuner, then a tuning fork, a piano that's been tuned starting with an electronic tuner or tuning fork? Oboeists aren't expected to have perfect pitch are they?

It would make no sense for an entire orchestra to tune to the instrument that has the most difficulty staying in tune---which is clearly not the oboe. Musicians have to adjust their instruments during a performance when they hear themselves off a bit----if the instrument they tuned to has gone off more than anyone else....yikes! A chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Thus, if you tune to your "weakest link" you will have a very weak chain.

I completely agree----it is not "rocket science".

[Cayden]

Someone in Private Message wondered if all obnoxious bodhran and spoonplayers who were told off at their sessions had the same support on their respective messageboards after complaining as that that was extended above. In other words : is the approach of ‘let the feckers have it’ and ‘go for it, if they don’t like it they can feck off’ really the sensible and sensitive approach without knowing more of the situation?

Pipers, as it stands, could be a bit more sensitive to their environment. In general being rhythmically adaptive is not the strong point of pipers and fitting in is not always the easiest. Tuning and volume often don’t help the situation. I know ofcourse other instrumentalists can suffer the same problems but as I said a bad fiddler can be absorbed, a mediocre piper stands out like a sore thumb.

That said, and that was the point I was making in the post quoted by David, (the one that was deleted by myself this morning) playing in session with the pipes is not something I find very rewarding. Too much of what makes the pipes special to me is lost in the hustle and bustle. I enjoy playing a few tunes in duo trio of even a foursome, if things fit well but anything beyond that is really a waste and I rather play the tinwhistle (if at all) in situations like that. Whistles are handy little things, I can play my heart out and enjoy the company without having to spend half the night with my head under the table to check if the drones are still in tune.

I could say more but I may get contrary so I may as well go and have my dinner.

[PJ]

Pipers, as it stands, could be a bit more sensitive to their environment.

I'm glad you brought this up. I think pipers suffer somewhat from an image problem. We can be perceived as a little elitest or even snobbish. The idea of the gentleman piper is only something we see amongst outselves, whereas other musicians consider us as dominating the session both in terms of the volume of our instruments and the fact that others sometime have to change their tunings to accommodate us. Add to that the fact that many volumes of music are not written for nor suited to uilleann pipes (O'Neills being my favourite example), UPs often have slightly different versions of popular session tunes which, while they sound great on pipes, don't necessarily gel all that well with other instruments or version of the same tune.

Being aware of the other players in the session, how long it has been going on, how they play certain tunes, etc., is essential. In two words, session etiquette.

[tommykleen]

Hey Cynth! Come to our tionol!

http://www.thegreatnorthernirishpipersc ... ionol.html

*Bump*
t

[Cynth]

I know what you're up to laddie.

I would come but unfortunately the reed in my whistle just died.

[Antaine]

What instrument do orchestras tune to?Oboe..why ? because it has the tendancy like the pipes to alter pitch.

Well actually so do flutes and just about every wind instrument. Its actually because oboes have a pure penetrating tone that can be heard over many instruments, so everyone can check and unify their tuning. Many oboeists play that A note over an electric tuner to make sure they've got it at A=440.

But yeah I get the gist of what you're saying... its a bit tough to get 24 people to tune to a set of pipes though isn't it? 24 in a session is really 20 musicians too many..

In asking around the music department, the simple answer I get back as to the main reason "why" they now tune to the oboe instead of the more historical first violinist is that the oboe has the smallest tuning range. It is "tuned" in the same manner as a chanter, by moving the reed up and down, and we all know what minor changes are achievable with that, and what tight tolerances there are regarding keeping the instrument in tune with itself and affecting the overall tone.

Plus, I've never heard of an orchestral oboe player rushing his bore or using tape on the holes like we do to compensate (in fact, most I've discussed it with reacted with horror that we would actually consider doing that). The only instrument that supercedes the oboe for tuning priority is the piano/harpsichord (when one is present), because of the time it takes to tune it. Even the harpist has to make quick adjustments in deference to the oboe.