Is singing ever done at sessions?

[Cynth]

ChrisA, I'm thinking that Bloomfield meant that you could just say "air", as in your example, because the definition of an air is a song played without the words, so "song air" would be sort of redundant.

'This is the air to Star of the County Down'

This sounds like a good way of putting it to me.

[Nanohedron]

"Song air" (also "aire", by the way), may sound redundant but it is definitely a phrase well in use. I know some ITM musicians (Irish, BTW) who use the term when there are words associated with the tune, which is usually. As Gaeilge, you'll see the words "Fonn Amhrán" in some liner notes. That means "song air".

[Cynth]

Oh! Well that is good to know. Sorry Bloomfield,for messing with your words. This is really quite a topic.

when there are words associated with the tune, which is usually

Okay, now here is my question. Since you say "usually", I take it that you are not talking just about slow airs (probably they would call slow airs by the name "slow air"), but dance tunes I guess that have at some time had words put to them? Can you write out the sentence exactly as one of these musicians would say it? Or maybe you are talking about slow airs?

[Nanohedron]

Oh! Well that is good to know. Sorry Bloomfield,for messing with your words. This is really quite a topic.

when there are words associated with the tune, which is usually

Okay, now here is my question. Since you say "usually", I take it that you are not talking just about slow airs (probably they would call slow airs by the name "slow air"), but dance tunes I guess that have at some time had words put to them? Can you write out the sentence exactly as one of these musicians would say it? Or maybe you are talking about slow airs?

Yes, I'm talking about slow airs. A lot -if not the majority- of such songs as are played as slow airs (or song airs, take your pick) are sung without discernible meter, and ought to be played in much the same way as they are sung. You can also take a dance tune and turn it into a slow air, just to add to the confusion. Which came first: the song "Cunla", or the jig it's sung to, "I Buried My Wife and Danced on Top of Her"? Me, I don't know. But play it in the form of a song air with the words in mind, and there you have it. Don't know if I've been helpful or not; it all seems pretty straightforward to me, so I'm not sure how to be clearest for you!

As for a sentence, I might hear, "Do you know the song air Sean O Duibhir a Ghleanna?" Or, "Do you know the slow air [SODaG]?" OR, "Do you know the air [SODaG]?" I don't really differentiate among the terms; you play the air or you don't.

[Cynth]

Yes, you have been helpful. I don't know how I got so balled up, but I think any comments people make are helpful. So are all "slow airs" actually slow? Is the song "Cunla", sung to a jig, actually sung very slowly? Are there songs that are sung at a fast tempo? It seems as though there must be. Are ALL songs called "slow airs"? What do you personally call fast songs?

[Nanohedron]

OK, Cynth, you can stop messin' with me now.

[BigDavy]

Hi Cynth

To answer your question a slow air (tune that is) can be fast, or any speed actually, the only qualification for it being a "slow air" is that it has no fixed time signature. You can take almost any tune and turn it into an air. (I do it with depressing regularity when practicing tunes on the UPs):lol:

BTW when are you going to post Haughs o' Cromdale???


David

[Cynth]

Nano, just because I'm slow-witted I don't think you should accuse me of messing with you. I was laughing because I can see that my questions are strange and everyone is trying so hard to help me. Those questions I asked you I would like an answer to. They really aren't jokes.

Hey there BigDavy---Okay, so slow airs can be fast. I have advanced a step. So maybe the word "slow" just means slow in comparison to dance tunes which would be played faster than someone could sing (I suppose). And I have heard of the sean-nos style which would not have a fixed time signature.

So then a song that has a fixed time signature we will just call a song----as per Bloomfield. And if I play the tune, I will call it an air or maybe a song air or maybe just by its title. This is for songs like the Haughs o'Cromdale for example (I know this is a Scottish song, but surely there are Irish songs of a similar type) which have a definite fixed time signature. Does that seem right?

Uhhhhhh, the latest estimate is that it will be at least 3 years before I would be posting anything, a fact for which I am sure everyone ought to be grateful. How about you?

[Nanohedron]

OK, then:

So are all "slow airs" actually slow?

It's not so much about rate of speed as it is about phrasing and expression. If you have any recordings of airs, give a listen. You'll find that some are more lighthearted than others. I'm a big fan of the airs, myself.

Is the song "Cunla", sung to a jig, actually sung very slowly?

Not that I've heard, but it IS often sung with a pause of about a three eighth-notes' duration between every two measures. Can't dance to that unless you're Bulgarian.

Are there songs that are sung at a fast tempo? It seems as though there must be.

Certainly. Performers with a flair for comic delivery will often have a couple of rapid-fire songs up their sleeve(s).

Are ALL songs called "slow airs"?

A decidedly qualified yes, when they are played for the tune and not sung using the words. Again, not all may be all that slow. Relaxed works. That's why I use the catch-all "air".

What do you personally call fast songs?

Bloody irritating sh*t.

[Cynth]

Thank you Nano for answering my questions. I think part of my problem was that for me "slow air" somehow implied really slow and very serious--like a lament---and it's now sounding as though that isn't the case. I don't know why I made this assumption. In some of my books there are airs which seem as though they would not make sense played terribly slowly and tragically---and so I couldn't figure out where they would fit in.

You will be happy to know that I have ordered the CD Peter Laban recommended and it will have singing on it, so perhaps I will soon be more educated in this area.

Hmmmm, I think I will specialize in fast songs. And then I will sing them when I come to your coffee shop.

I do appreciate your perseverance in helping me with my difficulties.

[jbarter]

Just as a matter of interest, when seeing the word session does everyone automatically think Irish?
My comments about the Newmarket session in an earlier post were based on the fact that not all of the stuff played there is Irish (OK most of it is but not all). It seems from other posts in this thread that nearly everyone is assuming at least Irish if not ITM.

Please forgive me if I've misinterpreted anyone's intentions in their post.

[Cynth]

Well, I'm sure you don't need forgiveness for asking a question!

[Nanohedron]

Just as a matter of interest, when seeing the word session does everyone automatically think Irish?
My comments about the Newmarket session in an earlier post were based on the fact that not all of the stuff played there is Irish (OK most of it is but not all). It seems from other posts in this thread that nearly everyone is assuming at least Irish if not ITM.

Please forgive me if I've misinterpreted anyone's intentions in their post.

Sorry, jbarter. I don't attend sessions of any other sort than ITM (not out of elitism, mind you, just preference), and so that's the angle I must always come from. I think other people have already posted that there are sessions where a much more mixed bag of music is played and welcomed, so I think that to suggest that "everyone" assumes an ITM session is going a bit far!

[Redwolf]

Just as a matter of interest, when seeing the word session does everyone automatically think Irish?
My comments about the Newmarket session in an earlier post were based on the fact that not all of the stuff played there is Irish (OK most of it is but not all). It seems from other posts in this thread that nearly everyone is assuming at least Irish if not ITM.

Please forgive me if I've misinterpreted anyone's intentions in their post.

Glad you asked that! I've been wondering the same thing myself. At our session last week, a suggestion was made that we pick some airs to learn, and I badly wanted to recommend "The Ash Grove" (a favorite of mine that I play well), but of course, that's a WELSH tune, and I wasn't sure if it would be kosher...especially at a CCE sponsored session! We did, however, play a lovely, properly lilting rendition of An Ghaoth Aneas (The Southwind), which made this picky wolfie very happy.

BTW y'all..."fonn" just means "tune." As in "Foinn Seisiun" ("Session Tunes": The tunebooks published by Comhaltas...most of which are dance tunes!). Usually "air" is used to mean either the melody of a song or a non-dance-related tune (including O'Carolan pieces).

Redwolf

[Nanohedron]

BTW y'all..."fonn" just means "tune." As in "Foinn Seisiun" ("Session Tunes": The tunebooks published by Comhaltas...most of which are dance tunes!). Usually "air" is used to mean either the melody of a song or a non-dance-related tune (including O'Carolan pieces).

Right you are. "Fonn Amhrán" would actually mean "song tune". Easy for me to forget that, as the English translations of Irish liner notes so often say "air" or "song air". Thanks for the correction.

BTW, upon checking with my Irish glossary, fonn also means "desire". Hmmm!