Learning Fiddle

[brad maloney]

...the ethos of Traditional music.

Okay; but just what is the ethos of traditional music?

I wondered myself!

If you have to ask you'll never know

[Nanohedron]

Meanwhile, a good swing-tuned button accordion has such a poignant sound that a lament might fall out of it by accident when you pick it up.

Not being hip to the arcana of free reed instruments, could someone explain "swing-tuned"? Thanks.

FWIW, I've occasionally heard laments and airs played on button accordions and concertinas, and when it was well done, it was a subtle thing, spare, like a private grief. All in the player, I think.

[kevin m.]

What I should have typed was "I sometimes wonder myself",as a response to Tony MacMahon's rather puzzling remark re the Accordion in I.T.M.
My Dictionary defines 'Ethos' as 'Characteristic spirit of Community,People or system. So,why doesn't Tony consider that his instrument mirrors the spirit of the Irish people?

[energy]

Okay; but just what is the ethos of traditional music?

I wondered myself!

If you have to ask you'll never know

First of all, that would mean it's impossible to learn traditional music and secondly, does that mean it's indefinable? Personally, I think music is a lot easier to define and understand than some people think; most if not all ideas about music can be said in words.

Anyway, it also seems apparent that MacMahon doesn't feel that this "ethos of traditional music" is something that demands adherence. Unless unbeknownst to us he has given up playing.

And btw Kevin, I don't think it would mean that accordion doesn't mirror the spirit of the Irish people; I think it would imply it doesn't fit in with the spirit of Irish music. Not having a lot of depth of experience with accordion, I wouldn't know what it is about the instrument that makes him feel this way.[/i]

[Nanohedron]

Anyway, it also seems apparent that MacMahon doesn't feel that this "ethos of traditional music" is something that demands adherence. Unless unbeknownst to us he has given up playing.

Hmmm...perhaps MacMahon's comments about accordion-filled bogs and the aforementioned "ethos" are a personal style of humility?

[Liam]

Not being hip to the arcana of free reed instruments, could someone explain "swing-tuned"? Thanks.

FWIW, I've occasionally heard laments and airs played on button accordions and concertinas, and when it was well done, it was a subtle thing, spare, like a private grief. All in the player, I think.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but I just got back from a week in the Catskills studying Irish Button Accordion with Billy McComiskey...

Ok, now as for what swing tuning is... its between Dry and Wet tuning..

Ok, granted you probably need more info for that to make sense. Since most accordions have 2 or more reeds per note (like having multiple harmonicas playing the same tune at the same time) they are often tuned slightly differently. If a box had 3 reeds you might have A=440, 441, 439. The further apart the reeds are tunned for the wetter the sound, the closer the dryer. A concertina is completely dry since they only have one reed per note. A wet tuned box will have alot of tremelo while a dry tuned one will have none. Swing tuning provides a moderate amount of tremelo. Most modern Irish Boxes are tuned fairly dry, somewhere between completely dry and swing tuning (referred to as demi-swing). Dry and demi-swing tunings allow the boxes to blend well with fiddles and pipes but there are advantages to wet tunnings, one being that it works well with flutes and whistles since those instruments often are a little flat or sharp for part of their range (On a wet accordion the note sounds both flat and sharp thus making it lightly that the flute will fall in the right range).

Ok, probably more info than you wanted.. but hey .

--
Bill

[Nanohedron]

Thanks, Liam.

I knew abt. wet and dry, just never heard the term "swing" before. I've joked with an accordion player as to whether I felt like tuning my cittern "dry" or "wet" on a given day.

McComiskey, eh? That had to be good.

[Liam]

Thanks, Liam.

I knew abt. wet and dry, just never heard the term "swing" before. I've joked with an accordion player as to whether I felt like tuning my cittern "dry" or "wet" on a given day.

McComiskey, eh? That had to be good.

It was, but then I have lessons with Billy regularly (He lives less than an hour's drive from me). What was really cool was the ability to meet and mix with so many great musicians and see some really outstanding talent amongst some of the kids there. If Irish music is not thriving 20 years from now it certainly won't be because of lack of talent.

--
Bill

[Roger O'Keeffe]

Dry, wet and semi-swing! And I thought pipers had problems with their reeds.

MacMahon is one of those people: you either love him or hate him, some people both, and I suspect that his own relationship to his weapon of choice falls somewhere near the last category. He gets a lot of expression out of it himself, but in the hands of a lot of people the accordian has been an instrument of mass destruction.

As to its representativeness of the Irish ethos, insofar as pull is at least as important as push, it's probably even more representative than the harp!

[Cariad]

I have recently been thinking about taking up the fiddle and have been hearing some discouraging .

If yo u want to play the fiddle then play the fiddle!
My friend who I play music with started 5 years ago when he was 50. (And he went to classes to build his own fiddle first - it is a lovely instrument - took him quite a while though!) He's definately not the best fiddler you will ever hear but we can play quite respectably(!) together and he just absolutely loves playing it - and that gives him great motivation to practise and improve which is is doing continually (and so am I - at the ripe old age of ( 21!) 45 I took up silver flute nearly 2 years ago (classical) and have progressed really fast with it - now I'm playing whistles and wooden flute (just!) too and its the love of it which just drives me to play so much. If you practise you get there!
Good luck
Sarah

[Liam]

Dry, wet and semi-swing! And I thought pipers had problems with their reeds.

Not a problem at all, gives you an excuse to have several boxes.

MacMahon is one of those people: you either love him or hate him, some people both, and I suspect that his own relationship to his weapon of choice falls somewhere near the last category. He gets a lot of expression out of it himself, but in the hands of a lot of people the accordian has been an instrument of mass destruction.

Well I think this is true of most instruments. I have yet to meet an instrument that can't be played in a heavy handed and disruptive manner. I think the rule with any instrument is to try and be unobtrusive with the instrument.

As to its representativeness of the Irish ethos, insofar as pull is at least as important as push, it's probably even more representative than the harp!

I think what probably bugs alot of people is how much the Box has changed in the last century. I mean most other instruments are essentially unchanged from the instruments that were used in Ireland in the 19th century.. heck in many cases they might be using the same instruments that were used in the 19th century. In contrast the box has gone throuhg several distinct phases where the tuning and the instrument changed dramatically.

--
Bill

[Mandolingirl]

Mark, if you love the fiddle and want to learn the fiddle, go for it!!! I know several people who started as adults and they have become good at it!! They may not sound like Nathalie MacMaster but they are good enough to have fun at jams and play in bands with friends.

I play the mandolin since a couple of years and I started learning the fiddle this year. It is hard, and it takes time and practice, but it is worth it, and if you really want to learn it, you will.
I practice way too little so I have only myself to blame when it sounds bad, but I'll practice more from now on, when my inspiration is back.
I must say I believe it is a great advantage if you can play the mandolin before you try the fiddle. Yes, the mandolin has frets and the fiddle doesn't, but if you are familiar with the mandolin, then you know the fingering and it's the same on the fiddle once you've gotten used to having no frets (it took a few hours for me, and I have no long musical background behind me). Then you can just move the tunes you know on the mandolin on to the fiddle. It's easy!!!
Getting a good tone surely takes time, but if you love it and want it, you will succeed with it. Just think positively and don't listen to others who say the opposite!!!

Of course you can learn the fiddle without playing the mandolin, it just takes a bit more time, as you need to learn the fingering too. All you need is a good musical ear.

Do it!

Good luck!!

Swedish mandolin and fiddle girl

[brad maloney]

They may not sound like Nathalie MacMaster

Thank the sweet lord in heaven!!



Sorry but you have to expect that stuff when posting about Cape Breton music on a (how dare you like anything but) Irish board.

[Mandolingirl]

Sorry, but she was the only really good fiddler I could think of at the moment (more than ALison Krauss, but she isn't much Irish either)!! I guess I should know a long long list of good Irish fiddlers (I bow my head in shame) but I haven't played the fiddle for long and I've been doing Irish music for quite a short time too, so I haven't learned all the names yet (only band names and some personal favorites but I think they are all whistlers)! Sorry about that, sorry sorry.......

[brad maloney]

Don't be sorry, I was just having a bit of fun

One of my favs of the moment is John Carty, another is James Kelly. Both well worth checking out. Of course there's a zillion others but I'll keep it short.