Yamaha Fife

[I.D.10-t]

About the lip plate, would the bumps be a problem if you played it like a modern flute rather than like an ITM player?

[groxburgh]

[quote="Cork"]
Basically, the same F hole reamed out to get F# is the same hole G vents from, due to the fingering pattern of this flute, so what you are suggesting is to ream out a hole, and then fill that same hole back in.

I'd bet Yamaha took extra effort to get all of the holes just right, especially as this same design has been for sale for many years.[/quote]

No it's not the same hole! Ream out the upper edge of the small B2 hole to lift the Fnat to F# then if G has gone a bit sharp wax the upper edge of the B1 hole to drop G back to correct pitch. You might even have a usable Fnat with T1,2,3 B1,3,4 or else T1,2,3 and half hole B1

Maybe Yamaha did make the holes "just right" for playing F nat with T1,2,3 B1 There's no reason we can't alter it to make it "just right" to play F# with that fingering.

T= Top hand (usually left)
B= Bottom hand (usually right)

[groxburgh]

.... You might even have a usable Fnat with T1,2,3 B1,3,4 or else T1,2,3 and half hole B1

Correction: ..... or else T1,2,3 B1 and half hole B2

[Cork]

Basically, the same F hole reamed out to get F# is the same hole G vents from, due to the fingering pattern of this flute, so what you are suggesting is to ream out a hole, and then fill that same hole back in.

I'd bet Yamaha took extra effort to get all of the holes just right, especially as this same design has been for sale for many years.

No it's not the same hole! Ream out the upper edge of the small B2 hole to lift the Fnat to F# then if G has gone a bit sharp wax the upper edge of the B1 hole to drop G back to correct pitch. You might even have a usable Fnat with T1,2,3 B1,3,4 or else T1,2,3 and half hole B1

Maybe Yamaha did make the holes "just right" for playing F nat with T1,2,3 B1 There's no reason we can't alter it to make it "just right" to play F# with that fingering.

T= Top hand (usually left)
B= Bottom hand (usually right)

I follow what you are saying about opening the upper edge of B2 to lift Fnat to F#, and, true, that could sharpen G. However, by filling in the upper edge of B1 to drop G back to correct pitch, it then appears that Fnat could be too sharp, and that T1,T2,T3/B1,hhB2 seems a likely alternative, not that such a thing could be hard to get along with.

So, it looks as though your proposed alteration could help to alter the fingering of this flute more toward traditional ITM fingering, at least on the right hand. There remains, however, the LH fingerings, and I don't see any way out of the woods on that one, to more fully convert the flute to ITM fingering.

BTW, sorry about the delay. I haven't had one of these things in more than ten years, and my memory of fingerings is more than rusty.

[groxburgh]

I follow what you are saying about opening the upper edge of B2 to lift Fnat to F#, and, true, that could sharpen G. However, by filling in the upper edge of B1 to drop G back to correct pitch, it then appears that Fnat could be too sharp, and that T1,T2,T3/B1,hhB2 seems a likely alternative, not that such a thing could be hard to get along with.

So, it looks as though your proposed alteration could help to alter the fingering of this flute more toward traditional ITM fingering, at least on the right hand. There remains, however, the LH fingerings, and I don't see any way out of the woods on that one, to more fully convert the flute to ITM fingering.

BTW, sorry about the delay. I haven't had one of these things in more than ten years, and my memory of fingerings is more than rusty.

Fingering chart

I think you're right about the Fnat after modifying and that cross fingering will give a note a bit high, so half holing could be better.

There isn't any problem with the top hand.
Compared to a whistle or normal flute
G is the same
A is the same
B is the same
C# is the same
Cnat is T1 only and thumb off which is different but maybe T 2,3 plus thumb would be close

Second octave is the same.
For D# G# A# the only difference is the fact that cross fingering supposedly works and as usual cross fingering is different in 2nd octave. But half holing notes should also work.

[Cork]

I follow what you are saying about opening the upper edge of B2 to lift Fnat to F#, and, true, that could sharpen G. However, by filling in the upper edge of B1 to drop G back to correct pitch, it then appears that Fnat could be too sharp, and that T1,T2,T3/B1,hhB2 seems a likely alternative, not that such a thing could be hard to get along with.

So, it looks as though your proposed alteration could help to alter the fingering of this flute more toward traditional ITM fingering, at least on the right hand. There remains, however, the LH fingerings, and I don't see any way out of the woods on that one, to more fully convert the flute to ITM fingering.

BTW, sorry about the delay. I haven't had one of these things in more than ten years, and my memory of fingerings is more than rusty.

Fingering chart

I think you're right about the Fnat after modifying and that cross fingering will give a note a bit high, so half holing could be better.

There isn't any problem with the top hand.
Compared to a whistle or normal flute
G is the same
A is the same
B is the same
C# is the same
Cnat is T1 only and thumb off which is different but maybe T 2,3 plus thumb would be close

Second octave is the same.
For D# G# A# the only difference is the fact that cross fingering supposedly works and as usual cross fingering is different in 2nd octave. But half holing notes should also work.

It was the thumb which raised my eyebrows in my earlier post, yet I now see how you see it. IMO, I'd go for leaving the thumb in place at all times, or maybe even blocking off the thumb hole, to then go with your T2,T3 plus thumb, or if the thumb hole were blocked off then just T2,T3. Blocking off the thumb hole might work out better for those with larger hands, on such a small flute, to allow for more alternatives on the LH grip, piper's vs. classical, for instance. However, I've never been satisfied with 0XX 000 for Cnat* (as the usual fingering), and there I prefer 0X0 XX0 (and sometimes 0X0 XXX) for Cnat* in both octaves. So, perhaps something like that could work? *= as per D flute fingering

[mutepointe]

Did it ever just cross your minds to just leave well enough alone and just play the instrument as it is? Sometimes you folks overwhelm me.

[groxburgh]

Did it ever just cross your minds to just leave well enough alone and just play the instrument as it is?

Leaving it alone is certainly an option. I never suggested anyone ought to do this, just that it wouldn't be hard to change the fingering to standard whistle/flute fingering if that's what you wanted. And there were comments from people saying they didn't want to use it because of the fingering. Personally I play several different instruments with similar but different fingerings, but will also alter something if it suits me.

[I.D.10-t]

Anyone know if these things can be pushed into the third octave past E?

[Sillydill]

Hey I.D.10-t,

SO YER WANTIN TO CRACK SOME CRYSTAL!

The Yamaha isn't very good up high.

However the Sweet Pro-Fife plays up to the 3rd G (highest fingerings I know).

Seriously, when I play up that high one of the cats gets weird and starts meowing incessantly. Please don't report me to PETA!

[jim stone]

careful of the ears. I wear ear plugs when I play that thing.

[Cork]

Did it ever just cross your minds to just leave well enough alone and just play the instrument as it is? Sometimes you folks overwhelm me.

Although there seems to be a real possibility to alter the fingering, I side with you, and would play it as it is.

[Sillydill]

I’m not one for complacency!


First I plugged the C-nat. hole on the underside of the body.

Then I opened up the C-hole to 15/64”.

Finally I moved the F-hole 2 mm north of the edge of the existing hole and drilled it out to 7/16”. (Hindsight: I should’ve plugged the existing hole and moved well north.)


Now I have a Proper Irish Piccolo!

[Cork]

...First I plugged the C-nat. hole on the underside of the body...

Jordan,

Until this thread, I'd never given any thought to modifying the little Yamaha flute (but for that matter, I'm not a flute maker, anyway), but this thread now has my interest, and I have a question, please. That is, have you made any discoveries about the sort of plastic the Yamaha is made of, and in particular, of what glue work best on it? Plugging holes on a plastic flute calls for glue, right?

TIA

[Sillydill]

Hey Cork,

I just used "Hot-Melt" glue to plug the hole. It is easily removed.

I belive the plastic is a form of PVC, sure drills and works like PVC pipe with more plasticizer in it.

I pondered what I could use to plug the F-hole if I were to relocate it. The problem is that a new F-hole will intersect the plug, so it needs to be workable. I would wonder about a J-B weld type product or some form of epoxy. I've got some white marine epoxy, but it doesn't work well for drilling\milling (remains a bit pliable).

I think the modified Yamaha is a fine little piccolo!

All the Best!