Best way to start learning music theory?

fatveg · Post by **fatveg** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 2:01 am

On 2002-08-01 01:28, DrGiggles wrote:
On 2002-07-31 20:49, the_instrument_player wrote:
I find music theory pretty fascinated (well, up until I got into the 20th century stuff, and then it gets a bit ridiculous!) and I think it's cool to understand more about what we play.
Ridiculous??? What's rediculous about putting wooden blocks on the strings of a baby grand so that the the timbre and tone of the instrument changes? What's ridiculous about having Sax and Clarinet players remove their mouthpieces and squeak in the middle of a piece? (PDQ Bach did it first, and it was great!)

I agree that micro-tonal music as well as some of the "concepts" introduced in the 20's century are a little "different", but not rediculous.

I should mention that I played a Concert that had a piece called "Water Music" that required the squeaking of "Rubber Duckies" at appropriate times.

-Frank

Ok, I'll bite -- some of the serial stuff may have gone 'off the scale', but the C20th gave us Stravinsky, Schotakovich, Cage, Andriessen, Webern, Messaien, Tippet, Adams, Zorn, Ives, Reich ... none of which could have happened if they weren't influenced by or kicking back against Schoenberg.

And Verklärte Nacht is beautiful.

Fatveg.

(OK, I admit it, I love Pierrot Lunaire as well)

Timotheus7 · Post by **Timotheus7** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 2:06 am

avanutria,
If you want to know the basics (stuff that they would teach at high school level, or at least at the my alma mater: all the intervals, triads and seventh chords, non-chord tones, cadences, scale construction, relative minor, I could go on for awhile), I would be more than happy to try to help you with anything you want to know. I love theory: it fascinates me to no end (thank you for the stuff on 64ths and 128ths Frank), even if it does get over my head. (Unfortunately, showing you this stuff over the internet is kinda hard, so I'll recommend a book, too.)
As far as books, I think there is a college book on it that might be pretty good (I don't know for sure) called the "Roots of Tonal Harmony". Don't go and buy this book yet, because I'm pretty sure I can come up with something better. A good music dictionary may also be of some help to you (oxford's is a good one). Please email me (Timotheus7@att.net) any questions you have. If I don't know the answer, I'll at least try to find it!

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 7:47 am

On 2002-08-01 04:01, fatveg wrote:

Ok, I'll bite -- some of the serial stuff may have gone 'off the scale', but the C20th gave us Stravinsky, Schotakovich, Cage, Andriessen, Webern, Messaien, Tippet, Adams, Zorn, Ives, Reich ... none of which could have happened if they weren't influenced by or kicking back against Schoenberg.

And Verklärte Nacht is beautiful.

Fatveg.

(OK, I admit it, I love Pierrot Lunaire as well)

Okay, I'll be blunt. My last post was entirely tounge-in-cheek. There are many wonderful composers from the 20th century. My last post was purely to get a smile out.

-Frank

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:14 am

On 2002-08-01 09:47, DrGiggles wrote:

My last post was purely to get a smile out.

-Frank

that's the ticket

Cees · Post by **Cees** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:14 am

On 2002-08-01 04:01, fatveg wrote:
(OK, I admit it, I love Pierrot Lunaire as well)

You mean there's someone who actually likes that hideous thing? No offense, but I think that is THE most, or one of the most, awful pieces of music (if it can be called that) I've ever heard. I first heard it in my college music course several years ago and it gave me nightmares for weeks.

But to each his or her own!

Beth,
So I'm not the only one who gets fascinated by different things every month? My husband just shakes his head and wonders what it'll be next month, and the staff at the local public library probably wonder when I order loads of books on the same subject for weeks on end.

Though they don't have any music courses right now, have you ever checked out the free Barnes & Noble.com online courses? They recommend you buy the books to go with it, of course, but you don't have to. You can sign up for the classes and download all the lessons and exercises with no books. I've done a few and they're helpful. Here's the link:

http://www.barnesandnobleuniversity.com ... 53ZSGFT9RQ

Maybe sometime in the future they'll have a music course. I think they change their offerings every month or so.

fatveg · Post by **fatveg** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 11:28 am

On 2002-08-01 09:47, DrGiggles wrote:

Okay, I'll be blunt. My last post was entirely tounge-in-cheek. There are many wonderful composers from the 20th century. My last post was purely to get a smile out.

-Frank

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to aim that at you -- I couldn't work out whether it was a general slagging of C20th music or just a toung-in-cheek dig at its admitted excesses.

I guess as a lover of C20th music (and someone who believes all musical expression is precious, even that which I don't like) I'm naturally defensive and I felt I had to at least give the other side of the coin.
The thing is that one persons excesses is another person's art. I love Cage's prepared piano works. Many people see butchering a baby grand as sacrelige.

the_instrument_player · Thu Aug 01, 2002 11:34 am

I didn't say that 20th century music is ridiculous because I don't like it or don't appreciate (because I do like it and I do appreciate it); I just meant that I don't particularly enjoy analyzing it.

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:37 pm

PS - There IS a "Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory" book.

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 6:07 pm

Very cool. The winter course listings for my school have come out. In December I will be taking Music Theory 1 and World Music 2. And hopefully they will offer either Music Theory 2 or World Music 1 in Spring, and then i will be able to finish my liberal arts concentration.

*aware that this is confusing but is happy nonetheless*

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 6:41 pm

Hi Ava

I'm a music student, but have managed to bypass all in-depth theory for the last 5 years, so I'm sure you'll be fine whatever you decide to do

!

Really, though, if you do want to learn some theory, I think it really helps to learn theory as you come across it, rather than as definitions... so if you can find a teacher, it might make sense to pick a piece of music that you like, and analyse it with the teacher, start to finish (or mid-way through...

) - that way, you'll cover loads of theory, and you'll have tangible examples as you go.

You can also access the Grove Dictionary of Music online - your college may have printed copies too - at http://www.grovemusic.com/VALIDATE . If you get stuck on a particular topic or definition, or want to find out about a composer or work, it's good: it's pretty much a music encyclopedia. You're supposed to sign up and pay (your college may have done this already, in which case you're flying!), but they have a 24-hr trial period (or at least they had).

Good luck!
Deirdre

Edited to fix URL

[ This Message was edited by: fluter_d on 2002-09-12 20:43 ]