Wanted: Inexpensive Flute With Authority

[Chiffed]

The Jon C might be just a tad bit lighter, but that's just a feeling I have.

Yep. Much lighter actually. The M&E is a good but big flute, and quite heavy. My Jon C just feels like a keyless wooden flute. (And sorry to say that, yes it's prettier )

Good info - How does the Seery Delrin Pratten compare, weight and balance-wise? Anyone?

I wish I could just go to the music shop and try a dozen or so . . .

[michael_coleman]

Go with the Cochran flute....you won't be disappointed.

[cathal morley]

Amen to Michael Coleman's message.
Jon C. is yer man!

Like Golden's Syrup says, "Strength out of sweetness."

Cathal

[Dragon]

I have played woodwinds for over 10 years, and quite frankly, it is the "better than thou" attitude that has turned my stomach.

Perhaps its just my rebellious streak, lord knows I have one.

Any group whether they are musicians, or horse riders, or geeks, irritates me if they are extremely "clickly". I have seen to many other wise bright people get sucked into the
de-individualized pit of over controlling groups. They end up quivering over whether such-and-such will like “fill in the blank”, and what they will think of “fill in the blank”.

Did you ever hear of the saying “The graveyard is the richest place on earth?”

If people want to spend hours and hours of their lives learning how to imitate a style, then that is their choice. But I do not think people who want to add their own personal expression should be shunned. There is a great loss of wonderful music, music perhaps never heard that way before.

Trust me. Life Is To Short. Play your own damn music.

Ah, dear Dragon, but it is an exclusive club. I am not saying that beginners should be treated rudely or get the cold shoulder. But beginners should certainly be humble in the face of those who know more and who have been at it longer than they. You can't just pick up a flute and waltz in to a session expecting immediate acceptance.
Its members -- those in the session club -- spend hours and hours developing to the point where they feel accepted by their peers. Then a musician must spend hours and hours to move on up to the next level. It isn't a club that accepts all aspirants. Why should it? You must prove yourself worthy to be fully accepted. And it is daunting. No question about it. Irish music -- any music, when treated seriously [like classical, blue-grass, or old-time] -- is a demanding art and those who are respected practitioners have honed their art for years.
You would not get immediate acceptance at an old-time venue in Appalachia, or a blue-grass session in Nashville, or a good session in Galway, unless you can really play and not just be a pretender. Most Americans -- I hope Dragon is not included here-- believe that if they buy the gear they can play the sport. Sadly, that ain't the case with most things, not just traditional Irish music.

[peeplj]

I remain stubbornly convinced that it's possible to respect the tradition and consider yourself a part of it, while finding your own approach and your own voice.

Dragon, I sympathize with your frustration. I hope at some point you'll encounter a good group of musicians to play with, whether it's a session or not, whether its trad or not--because playing the music together, making a whole that's more than the sum of the parts, is one of the great mysteries and treasures of playing music. It'll lift you up higher than just about anything else I've found.

Again I feel I have to point out that at this point I have been to sessions in several places, some larger, some smaller, some more advanced, some less so. They have all been very welcoming, full of warm and friendly people.

Actually the only time I've ever been received with any kind of cold shoulder has been online. It's just never yet happened in the real world.

--James

[Chiffed]

I don't think anyone's stomach needs to turn, or that anyone's been holier than me (not all that holy in the first place).

'Professional' level musicianship is an exclusive club. I am deeply thankful to the pros who have given free advice, paid lessons, and let me share their stage while I was coming through the ranks. I remember sneaking into pubs at 15 years old, horn in hand, and being invited on stage more often than not.

At the same time, I share Suzuki's belief that music is an accessible and essential language. My own career has shifted from performing for the privileged to performing with the disabled and disadvantaged. These kids are curing me of all my obsessive and competitive habits in music.

There are still times, though, that I seek out musical opportunities at an exclusively higher level of skill and knowlege. It's a joy to expand my performance 'toolbox' by working with masters.

Like so many things, performance-level vs. accessibility is a balance, as individual as the personalities involved.

Just my $.02

[AaronMalcomb]

Perhaps your "rebellious streak" is clouding your perception, Dragon. Or perhaps you perceive well enough but your point is just too conflicting. So these comments aren't necessarily directed at you, just to add to the discussion.

What David is saying is that a session of traditional music is not an "anything goes" gathering. It's not an elitist clique and there is plenty of room for individualism. Even at a very open-format session (like my local where there aren't any prescribed sets of tunes), you're there to play along i.e. the same tune in the same key at the same tempo (for starters). If you don't know the tune, don't know it in that key, or can't play at that tempo then it's best to sit and listen unless your skilled enough to adapt on the spot.

Why? Session music isn't avant garde jazz where atonal and arhythmic polyphony is the norm. It's about the tunes. The point of a (good) session is not to homogenize your playing. What sessions do offer to somebody new to Irish music is exposure to people who (hopefully) are familiar with the idiom and repertoire.

The atmosphere varies from session to session. Can you just drop into any session and start playing? Can you show up on any pitch and jump into a football match? In either case it's usually best that you know somebody playing and that they are confident that you know what you're getting into.

Now, back to the issue at hand... a good session flute isn't always loud no matter how good you can play. As long you can hear yourself and you blend with the group, that should be good enough. What's more important is that the flute allows you to develop your playing.

Cheers,
Aaron

[peeplj]

One final comment, then I'll hush up.

At the end of the day, it's the flutist, more than the flute, that determines the volume and projection.

--James

[jim stone]

My own experience is that newbies showing up at sessions
are usually quite diffident and shy--the attitude: 'I've
got the equipment so I can play the music' isn't one
I've ever seen. At the best musical group I frequent,
with the most advanced musicians, we all pay an admission
of three bucks to use the venue--except the newbies.
They come in for free, and we try to nurture them.

However I think some musical activities require that newbies
adapt to what's going on; otherwise it can't be done.
It's fair to ask that of people.

So I figure it's a matter of separating out the reasonable
requirement that newbies adapt to what's happening
enough to not disrupt it (which is rather part of aculturation
and learning to be a musician), on the one hand,
from elitism and ego on the other.

The former is fair enough; I'm willing to go to considerable
lengths to adapt to a group I join; Idon't expect them
to adapt to me. If what they are doing isn't for me, finally,
I don't go.

[Jumbuk]

My own experience is that newbies showing up at sessions
are usually quite diffident and shy--the attitude: 'I've
got the equipment so I can play the music' isn't one
I've ever seen.

I second that. Although I am new to the flute, I have been attending sessions on and off for around 15 years. My experience is that it is unusual for beginners to seriously ruin a session - generally, beginners are ready to listen, and if they are initially clumsy or ignorant of session etiquette, it's not hard to explain the "rules" - and the information is generally well accepted.

Much more difficult is the s**t hot fiddler who thinks the session should play all his tunes at his tempo. Session players being what they are, no one really wants to take on the job of putting this type of person in his place - especially as this kind of personality is unlikely to take kindly to suggestions as to where he should put his instrument after the next tune!

PS Not directed at fiddlers alone - same applies to rogue box players, banjoists, and (dare I say it) even fluties.