Copeland flute worth?

[dunnp]

Folks who can't play slideless flutes that are designed to play in 440 or thereabouts need to worrry about their embouchure and not about tuning slides.

My Blackman flute will play from 440 down to 415 (well I can play with a set of c sharp pipes ) alright with its best pitch around 430-425 probably the target range of its day.
Slides are designed to offer a range of pitch standards not to compensate for deficient technique.

Constantly mucking about with slide position is a beginners difficulty.
My slides dont move much if at all.
I can muck about with slide positions and through adjusting embouchure still play around with being in tune.

Everytime a flute with no slide comes up Jim , you say the same thing.
They can be nice to have but are not a necessity if you plan on playing around a440.

(edit) though to be fair to your comment slideless flutes do often go for less.

[Julia Delaney]

Folks who can't play slideless flutes that are designed to play in 440 or thereabouts need to worry about their embouchure and not about tuning slides.
Slides are designed to offer a range of pitch standards not to compensate for deficient technique.
Constantly mucking about with slide position is a beginner's difficulty.

Absolutely!! Well said. Though last night when I sat down to play with the band, with a cold flute, I did have to move the slide a wee bit until it warmed up to where I could move it to its usual position. My slideless flutes -- Doyle and Olwell - seem to have a meatier bark about them. They give a richer, denser sound, rather that the dry, clean tone of my flutes with slides. If the dry tone is what people mean when they say that the flute with a slide has more focus, then I agree. But "focus" makes it sound as if the flutes with slides are superior, which is not the case.

I often play with a fluter/piper who is constantly fiddling with the position of his HJ. I think that is because his flute is basically out of tune. His ear is good enough that when he hears the sharp A he pulls the HJ out, but then his other notes are out of tune. The answer is for him to develop his embouchure to compensate, or to buy a flute in better tune. The slide is of no help.

The absence of a slide is likely to make a significant difference in what people will pay for the flute.

This is true. But not because the slide makes it a better flute. It just takes a bit longer to make a flute with a slide, rather than a flute without a slide. The higher price reflects the longer time it takes the maker to make the barrel and HJ of the flute with a slide, plus the cost of the silver if the slide is sterling.

[Gordon]

While Jim does often seems to ask this question (will it play in tune when the headjoint is pulled out) - there was actually nothing in his last post that was untrue or adversarial. Since the OP is asking specifically about this flute's value, the absence of a slide should, and does, lower its price. If a player feels slides are little more than adornment (and I don't believe either David or Dunnp were saying so, exactly) then the lowered price makes this flute a doubly rich offer - a great flute, with a reasonably lowered price, due to the lack of (unnecessary) slide.

Other than Baroques, I've not played a flute without a slide, but agree that I rarely need to move my slide to get in tune, once its warm. On Baroques, I've never had any need for its lack of slide. However, as I've played with slightly flat fiddlers, for eg, (well, their fiddles, anyway) who insist I'm sharp (wit, perhaps, but right on A440, far as a tuner goes), I've found slides extremely valuable. Necessary? Rarely. So a good flute (and all the Copeland's I've heard are good to great flutes) without a slide would be, to my mind, a great deal.

[jim stone]

The absence of a slide is likely to make a significant difference in what people will pay for the flute.
Also its age. I wouldn't, therefore, go higher than 600 and might well consider less.

Can you say something about how the flute sounds? Intonation? Volume? Apologies if I've missed earlier comments
about this. If the flute plays very well that certainly will help. Is it adequately tunable with just the tenon?
(Some flutes are.)

I now own two flutes without slides, and they are very well in tune. I' ve played or owned plenty more that were fine.
I do not, to my
knowledge, often or always raise questions about slides. E.G. I recently said 'Yum!' to a Doyle slideless flute.

I just meant what I said. Nothing more, except that to sell this flute it would be helpful to answer (in the ad) the questions
I asked. If the flute is a great player, for instance, saying this may make a difference to the asking price. If one says
nothing, people may not know what to think.

Jungle Jimmy's Flute Warehouse ('Have I got a flute for you!')

[popsnorkle]

Can you say something about how the flute sounds? Intonation? Volume? Apologies if I've missed earlier comments
about this. If the flute plays very well that certainly will help. Is it adequately tunable with just the tenon?
(Some flutes are.)

These are perfectly reasonable questions. I didn't say much about this because I'm not sure what to say. I don't feel confident as a judge of these things. I've always considered this flute my easier one to play, but I don't love it the way I'm loving my newly fixed Rudall and Rose with a Wilkes head. I put a sample of me playing it at http://www.squidliver.net/cindy/music/copelandflute.mp3 but of course this is limited by my playing. I haven't played many of the flutes people are comparing to.

[popsnorkle]

A belated thank you to everyone who helped me with information in this thread. I haven't decided what to do but I feel like I have a much better idea now.

[jim stone]

Probably this has occurred to you, and you are living in a place where you can probably find somebody who is
good on the Irish flute who (buy them a pint) will play the flute and tell you how well it plays. That piece of info
will put the matter in perspective, IMO. Good luck!

[popsnorkle]

Probably this has occurred to you, and you are living in a place where you can probably find somebody who is
good on the Irish flute who (buy them a pint) will play the flute and tell you how well it plays....

Actually, that didn't occur to me, partly because I don't actually live that close to anything. The closest session I know of is an hour away by car and I haven't seen any flute players there, but I can go to NYC on occasion. It was only when I moved here to Long Island that I realized that the name was descriptive.

Thanks again

[Steve Bliven]

Whereabouts on Long Island? There are some flute players based there (and I get to the south fork area from time to time).

Best wishes.

Steve

[MTGuru]

You could try contacting FMSH (Folk Music Society of Huntington) and/or LITMA (Long Island Traditional Music Association). Irish music is not their focus, but they may be able to provide some leads.

[popsnorkle]

Whereabouts on Long Island? There are some flute players based there (and I get to the south fork area from time to time).

Center Moriches, south shore, about 55 miles east of the NYC line. I have been playing with people, but they're not so Irish music focused. I'd love to get together with anyone who's out this way.

Cindy

[Steve Bliven]

Nothing at Buckley's Irish Pub? There used to be sessions there before the fire.

Best wishes.

Steve

[FascinatedWanderer]

Not really anything I'm aware of; the city is much the better bet. I'm LI born and bred and very glad to be living in the city instead now (especially as far as the music is concerned). Though I think the NY Irish Center in Long Island City has a session once in a while.