New Flute

[LorenzoFlute]

I've played a Wylde a month ago, it was one of the nicest sounding flutes I've tried.

[jemtheflute]

English makers did not generally stamp the head - I think they viewed the head & barrel as a unit, even though separable, and so didn't stamp the head as well. That said, a good many makers stamped nothing at all, or only did the "main" stamp on the upper body. So, lack of a stamp on a head is no reason whatever to doubt authenticity/original integrity. You should only have those kinds of worries if there is other firm evidence to suggest a "foreign", substitute or replacement part, such as wildly ill-matched wood (say grenadilla on an otherwise cocus flute), non-matching rings, etc. (though loss and replacement of rings with non-matched ones is perhaps more likely than changing the head!). Of course, if someone in distant or recent times had a replacement head made with well matched wood and the original metal accoutrements, you would have very little chance of discerning the fact. So, on balance, you can't prove the head is original, but it is unlikely not to be unless there's rather more evidence for doubt than mere lack of a (not usually applied) stamp.

Not sure what you mean about the "tubular shim" on the barrel - photos?

Congrats on your acquisition - I'm sure we all hope you'll be very happy together!

[kkrell]

Thanks for all your advice so far. I'd contacted Arthur Haswell re the RRC but it's out on trial. I'm up in Manchester at the weekend, so I can try the Prowse and Wylde. I'm not in any hurry, so I might hang fire for a while, 'til after the Christmas madness!

I don't see the Prowse or Wylde on the website. You can be very happy with a Wylde.

I see I mixed up websites when I was looking back when. Is this your flute?

http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/shbigpic ... =21MAMA170

[fsharp]

more news later.... off to work!!!!!!!

[RudallRose]

The first maker that I'm aware of who stamped all the parts -- and matched the serial numbers, which is a very nice thing -- was Siccama. Frankly, I wonder if the idea was John Hudson's (his able "coadjutor" as described-but-unnamed by Rockstro) since the stamping moved along to the Pratten's Perfected flutes first made by Hudson (marked "Hudson from Siccama") and later by Boosey/Sons.

I believe Monzani was the first (?) to use serial numbers on a flute. He certainly marked the head pieces "1" and "2" (was there a "3"?) to reflect the sharper/flatter pitches or the Eb/D flutes. But I don't think that applied to anything but the single-piece headjoints w/o slides (generally male-to-female joints, often into lovely silver sockets of his design...or was it Henry Hill?).

I don't recall whether other makers took on the same as Pratten (Hudson and Boosey) by stamping each piece and matching with serial numbers. Frankly I'm surprised they didn't.

But if there was any tactic to use, it would be to put the stamp on the upper portion of the headpiece rather than the barrel, which was more akin to splitting and, of course, replacement. Many a Rudall today has a barrel missing the stamp. I have one whose barrel was replaced by RRC and marked thusly!

[fsharp]

Some pictures on the way.... I forgot to mention the silver lip plate!!
Just for my own amusement I tested the tuning using the s8tuner:
cork at 19mm from centre of embouchure
slide extended to give A 440
Low D should be 293.7 flute 287
E 329.6 326
F# 370 362
G 392 386
A 440 440
B 493.9 495
C 523 524
C# 554.4 551
D 587.3 584
E 659.3 659
F# 740 728
G 784 783
A 880 880
B 987.8 991
C 1047 1046

Not at all scientific but interesting, Anyone done the same?

[jemtheflute]

What fingering are you using for the C naturals? The key? Fine for 1st 8ve, maybe OK for top of 2nd, or not.... Don't go on oxx ooo cross fingering for 1st 8ve! It will (almost certainly) be flat and veiled. And did you vent the C key for the middle C# and an F key for the F#s? And the Eb key for low E (but probably not 2nd 8ve E) and the F#s? It will probably be necessary to vent the Eb key for high (3rd 8ve) D (oxx ooo,) too, which you don't include. It's not a fair test of an antique flute if you don't!

It certainly fits a common looking pattern, but isn't at all extreme. I'd suggest trying it again with your reference note as G - that'll get most of it more into tune, but will make the A slightly sharp and exacerbate the sharpness of the B.

I'd be interested to see the results with the appropriate vented fingerings at the same tuned pitch as your first lot, and then both ways (assuming you didn't vent for your first set) tuned on G.

I've never done anything quite this precise myself, BTW.

[LorenzoFlute]

Come on Jem, nowdays you can probably count the people that really vent the keys on your hands' fingers...

[jemtheflute]

Come on Jem, nowdays you can probably count the people that really vent the keys on your hands' fingers...

Sure, but it is plain daft to assess a flute in a fashion irrelevant to its construction. You can't expect it to be anywhere near in tune unvented/with wrong fingerings - it just won't be - and if you want to take an antique on and play it well as what it is, best face that from step1!

[kkrell]

Thanks for all your advice so far. I'd contacted Arthur Haswell re the RRC but it's out on trial. I'm up in Manchester at the weekend, so I can try the Prowse and Wylde. I'm not in any hurry, so I might hang fire for a while, 'til after the Christmas madness!

I don't see the Prowse or Wylde on the website. You can be very happy with a Wylde.

I see I mixed up websites when I was looking back when. Is this your flute?

http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/shbigpic ... =21MAMA170

Guess not. No silver lip plate on the above.

[benhall.1]

Didn't fancy coming to see/test my flutes then?

[fsharp]

Jemtheflute:I didn't use any keys for the little tuning exercise, I'll do that tonight.
Benhall, I'd love to have a look at your flutes, maybe after Christmas.
Kkrell. My Wylde had just been restored and was not on their lists yet
How many players vent when playing?

[benhall.1]

Jemtheflute:I didn't use any keys for the little tuning exercise, I'll do that tonight.
Benhall, I'd love to have a look at your flutes, maybe after Christmas.
Kkrell. My Wylde had just been restored and was not on their lists yet
How many players vent when playing?

A) You'd be very welcome. Come and have a toot.
B) I too would be very interested to know how many people vent when playing. Trouble is, whenever we have that discussion, we just end up arguing. (Well, to be fair, Jem's on one side and everybody else* is on the other. )



* Even though I do, in fact, vent, probably even more studiously than Jem, I still make a point of never supporting him in these arguments. heh heh

[jemtheflute]

"How many players vent when playing?"

Rather few. It's one reason why many these days opt for modern made flutes which have mostly been at least to some extent modified to reduce the need. There's plenty of old stuff about the subject on this Forum. I freely admit to being "the only one marching in step" on this, but do the tests and you'll literally see (and hear) the issue. How you then choose to address it in your own playing of this particular flute will, naturally, be up to you, but at least you will know what you are or are not doing and why. It would be IMO just foolish to wonder why/complain that certain notes are "out of tune" if you don't play them with the (vented) fingerings the maker tuned them for. There are faults/discrepancies in the tuning of antique flutes, sure, (e.g. flat low D) but the notes requiring vented fingerings cannot fairly be so described.

[Denny]

yer the only one are ya?

ain't you special!



an' wrong