Session etiquette and lending your pipes?

[piperhahn]

Well I think perhapse you may have missed an opprotunity here. what you should have asked this "stranger" is if you might have a go at his wife, sister, or mother, first before you gave it a thought.... it would have been about as appropriate. The gall of some people. I have let a few people play my pipes, but they are pipers that I have judged know how to respect the fine craft that is playing the Uilleann pipes, not just "learning" the uilleann pipes.

[Johnered66]

I recently found a pipers club not far from me, and joined in...being a new piper I was only too eager to let a brand new piper, ( with no pipes yet ) to have a go at my full set. It seemed everyones jaw dropped...I'm not too clear on all the etiquette...my gut feeling is if he wanted to play your pipes the least he could have done was buy the group a few rounds and some whiskey to smooth it over...

[Steampacket]

You did the right thing in that situation, no need to feel bad. He didn't even have the manners/decency to ask you himself. Even if he did it's ok to say no if you don't feel good about lending your set, a Wooff set no less, to someone you know nothing about. Uilleann pipes are expensive and besides that very personal, set up just so for the owner, you don't want someone else fiddling about to make the set comfortable for them to play. It's you who own the pipes who should maybe ask another piper do you want to have a go on my pipes or in the presence of a more experienced piper you might ask him/her to play a tune to see what he thinks of your set. It can be interesting to hear your own set played by someone else, different sound perspective from that you hear when playing yourself.

Peter I met Gay in a session in Copenhagen a couple of years ago, he asked me "who made your set?" and I said "Williams, do you want to try the chanter?" I knew who he was of course. Gay played the chanter and it was nice to hear how it sounded, how others heard it, and also nice to hear it played by a master piper. He offered me his O'Briain chanter, but the thread was too thick on his wind cap to insert into my stock and I couldn't be bothered to unwind the thread or change yokes.

[CHasR]

RLines I think you were being set up; despite the fact you knew the one guy for 'a few years'.
Just my opinion

[TheSilverSpear]

I'm happy to let people have a go if they obviously know how to play but I wouldn't let someone who doesn't play them or a beginner anywhere near them during a session. I made that mistake once. I was in a session with some very well-known musicians, people far higher on the musical food chain than myself, and one of them, a very well regarded border piper who might play in some top bands, asked if he could have a go. I asked if he'd ever played the uilleann pipes before and he was a bit vague on the matter, so I was hesitant to let him try it. His pals were all like, "Ah, come on, let him have a go." I balked a bit more, but they were all "famous" players and I'm nobody so I caved to peer pressure. At the time, the reed was extremely soft -- too soft due to me having to do some surgery on it -- and I warned the piper that it was a very light reed. But being extremely pished and used to having the mother of all hard reeds in his border pipes, they thrashed out some reels and he throttled that thing with pressure. He complained that it was out of tune, which it is if you over blow the f*ck out it and use whistle fingering. It was certainly out of tune after he finished with it. I was a bit not impressed.

Another time I was playing in a session on Skye and some guy came up to me saying, "My pal is a piper. Can he have a go at your pipes?" I asked what kind of pipes his pal played and your man said he played Highlands. I told him in that case, he probably wouldn't be able to play these as it's a totally different instrument. It didn't register. All people see is a "bagpipe." Anyway, his piper pal, who seemed a bit embarrassed by his friend's antics, came over and sat next to me. He'd never seen anyone play uilleann pipes before and was fascinated and totally put off by how little they seemed like Highland pipes (duh). His mate kept trying to goad him and me into letting him have a go, but he was a bit more sensible and was like, "I couldn't feckin' play those things. No way."

[PJ]

Nothing wrong with refusing to let "some guy at the bar" play your pipes. I certainly wouldn't let "some guy at the bar" borrow my car, and my pipes are worth more than my car !!

[meuritt]

I think you did the right thing. However.

I went to a new (to me) session a few weeks back, one of the first regulars in owns a set of pipes that he brings with him. We chatted about piping, I told him I had both a Williams set and a Quinn set but didn't bring either because I didn't know how much room there was going to be, we do take up a lot of space.

When he took a break, I asked if he would mind my playing them, fully expecting to be told no, but he let me. I played two tunes on the very lovely set and gave them back on his return. A very nice gesture, thanks Dave!

Now, if someone were to ask me to use my pipes at a pub session, I would probably decline, unless they took the time to establish some credibility.

Mike

[katiecarmen]

You were right to refuse; it was a breach of etiquette for a stranger to ask if he could borrow your pipes.

[Uilliam]

I'm sorry but whit is all this etiquette ......? is there a book of rules and conduct to be adhered to at sessions? Do we ignore the requests for McAlpines Fusiliers frae the pished public cos we think its beneath oor standards?...ye play in bars.Bars sell alcohol.Work it oot.
Anyways don't ye think the jury has returned a not guilty verdict on this one?

[TheSilverSpear]

I'm sorry but whit is all this etiquette ......? is there a book of rules and conduct to be adhered to at sessions? Do we ignore the requests for McAlpines Fusiliers frae the pished public cos we think its beneath oor standards?...ye play in bars.Bars sell alcohol.Work it oot.
Anyways don't ye think the jury has returned a not guilty verdict on this one?

I ignore requests all the time because they're beneath my standards. I also maintain a certain amount of willful ignorance of certain tunes so when I tell someone that I don't know how to play something, I don't even have to lie about it. Usually. I'll not admit the ones I do kinda know in the event you request one at a session. Sure, we play in bars, but I'm there for a musical conversation and a few drinks with my friends and I'm not getting paid, so I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to please the eejit public. They can enjoy the music for what it is, or not.

[Uilliam]

OK so ye are there for a musical conversation...but ye should remember that your conversation can be heard by everyone wether they want to hear it or not.The customer of the bar is the reason the bar exists.Not fer musos who decide whit is best fer them (sometimes).It has got to the ludicrous situation in a Sunday music session in a bar in Glasgow where the musos actually instruct the money paying public to be quiet while they sing their lamentable dirges.If someone asks me (seldomly) to play a request and I know it,then I will play it.If it makes some poor wee soul happy whit harm is there in that?Far too many sessions are a little huddle with ideally their backs to the public not giving a fig as to those other members of the scene(the same raison d 'étre fer the existence of the bar) who are there to spend some money and have hopefully a nice time or not according to their mood..If I were to have a rule in the etiquette book it would be to musos to lighten up,stop being so self centred and inclusive and remember where and whit ye are.I am old enough to remember when the Pub Sessions first started and they were nothing like the dross that passes for some sessions today.
Uilliam


Here endeth ma sermon and contribution to this tired old thread.

[TheSilverSpear]

Not in the Oran Mor! We can hardly hear "the musical conversation" ourselves half the time. The real reason I don't play the sort of tunes which are normally requested is that I don't like them and can't be bothered learning them. In any event, what's wrong with huddling in the corner (so you can hear yourself) trying to make good music? I'm not saying good music is what happens in a lot of sessions -- that's a different discussion -- but as far as I am concerned, a session is not there to perform. If I am performing for an audience, playing what I think people want to hear rather than whatever I want to play, or don't want to play for that matter (I sat out most of the sets at the Oran Mor last night, as I'm in a mood these days about tunes played fast and flat), then it's called a gig and that has its own kind of etiquette. For further discussion of that distinction, search for threads related to "performance" on thesession.org.

[Uilliam]

Emily this isnae aboot ye or the Oran Mor so please don't take it as a personal attack. The sessions I was referring to afore ye where born, and indeed the beginning of session music in pubs was very much an inclusive and not an exclusive activity.Everyone in the bar was at some point included and the Sunday afternoon was an event to be enjoyed.
If'n ye sat in the corner huddled ye would be rightly called pig ignorant.
I would go a stage further these days and say pig arrogant.For that is whit it has become.
It is also a mistake to think or expect that by setting up a session in any old bar then that is ok.It maybe for the modern muso but it loses a lot of the original concept and charm.
Ye don't go to the butchers shop for bread after all so why set up a session in an environment that is totally alien to the music and atmosphere ye are trying to reproduce?.Or maybe ye are not trying to reproduce anything but create a new concept altogether..in that case fine but don't be confusing the two.If'n ye can't hear yerself playing twould suggest to me that the bar is not the most conducive atmosphere to be playing in.It is also nothing to do with performance or gigs..where I grew up it wasnae anwyay it was aboot having fun.Ask Gypsum whit she thinks?
Uilliam

[Ted]

Uilliam, I couldn't agree more. Your posts on the subject are spot on, IMHO.

[macwarner57]

Just to chime in on this off-topic discussion: The session I frequent is excellent for music, camaraderie and an appreciative audience- but it's not in a pub or bar, it's in a coffee house. Not a drop of black or pure in sight. Why, you ask? None of the local "irish" pubs want live music that isn't classic rock. Pathetic situation, but in our case at least we have quiet and it's obvious the performers are there for the music, nothing else. It's grand.

And no dirges in sight either. Jeez.