Drool (High Priced eBay Temptation)

[MikeS]

I wonder if the Valgon Rings people offer different models for 440Hz and 442Hz? I'm thinking of offering blackwood ones for ITM. And models for the tenor banjo, bouzouki and bodhran.

Terry

Not here, too! In the brass world you can buy heavyweight valve caps, tuba mouthpieces with exteriors the size of Red Bull cans, and trumpets that weigh close to 5KG. There was a fad in the tuba world about 15 years ago where folk were putting a leather belt (or belts) around their bells to damp vibration. It's way too easy to spend big bucks and end up sounding like yourself, just with a funny looking instrument.

I don't have a clue what pitch the oboist is playing when we tune the orchestra. I just push or pull the slide a bit and get on with it. As to Jem's comments, I tend to think the strings in an orchestra will push the pitch up a bit when left to their own devices. This doesn't happen so much in ITM because the fiddlers play open strings and stay in first position. Orchestral string players almost never play notes on open strings in order to keep the color of the notes more uniform and often stay well up the neck.

Fortunately, most composers don't leave the strings to their own devices for very long. When the winds or the bells come in, the strings will adjust if necessary. There have been a few times, though, when I've finished a piece with the tuning slide in a fair bit more than when I started it. I'm not sure how the flutes and clarinets handled those. All in all everyone is usually quite good at finding the most significant line or the lowest voice on the root of the chord and tuning accordingly as the piece progresses.

We seem to be taught right from when we start learning that erring a bit on the high side of the pitch is a lesser sin than erring on the low side. I read about the Vienna Philharmonic tuning up a few hertz to add a certain "sheen" to their sound. I can't recall hearing about any orchestra tuning to A=437 to add "warmth." Maybe we have a psycho-acoustician on the board who can tell me the whys of this.

One final thing on tuning. John Mack was the principal oboist of the Cleveland Orchestra for many years and a player of astounding musicality and virtuosity. He said that the tuning A was the scariest and most exposed oboe solo there was. He claimed he would start the A very softly during the applause for the concertmaster to guarantee he didn't muff the attack. It's a bit of a comfort to know that even the most accomplished players don't always find it easy.

[I.D.10-t]

Valgon Rings, wow, are they compatible with the resonance cause by my pyramid hat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
So really, would 7.85 cents make a flute that more "bright"?
Are there properties that can be altered that would give it
that sound without altering the pitch?

[MTGuru]

Not professing to be the expert, just putting out ideas and hoping to hear from someone who is an expert (perhaps MT Guru).

I'm no expert on this either, Akiba, just my own experience in bands and orchestras. As Terry says, the difference 440/442 is < 8 cents. And this is within normal tuning range of the woodwinds or brasswinds I've played or encountered, which are at A440 when the tuning mechanism is somewhere between the maximal and minimal positions, typically pulled out a bit.

I'd guess a "442 flute" to be more a matter of testing and setup than a practical issue. That is, maybe it's bench tested at that pitch for QC, and marketed as 442 = brighter, but perfectly capable of playing in tune at 440. Just a guess.

There's also the psychoacoustic effect that higher pitches tend to be perceived as relatively flat compared to lower voices. For example, this is one of the reasons for "octave stretching" in piano tuning (in addition to string inharmonicity). So officially pitching an orchestral flute slightly sharp relative to the orchestra might make sense from that POV. I don't know.

the Valgon Rings

I understand that the Rings of Valgon are lovely to look at when viewed through a high-powered telescope. Unlike the Rings of Sauron.

[jemtheflute]

Where did Val go?

[I.D.10-t]

the Valgon Rings

I understand that the Rings of Valgon are lovely to look at when viewed through a high-powered telescope. Unlike the Rings of Sauron.

Hopefully they sound better than Vogon poetry.

Why do they remind me of an exhaust pipe add on?

[jemtheflute]

Hopefully they sound better than Vogon poetry.

Why do they remind me of an exhaust pipe add on?

I knew they were reminding me of something! I wonder if they are even more analogous? - boy-racer silly expensive add-ons that look stupid and help to make unnecessary and obnoxious extraneous noise - i.e. advertise a deficiency of dangly bits........

[Maihcol]

Where did Val go?

You can ring Val on the Foster extension...

http://www.fosterextension.com/

These make more sense to me as I've definitely noticed a difference between a short D-foot and the longer C-foot on a Pratten type flute though not on Rudall & Rose types, nor the Boehm type either...
Other people have different experiences with them...There doesn't seem to be a consensus about what exactly they do - or don't do.

Now what was the original thread supposed to be about...

Garry

[I.D.10-t]

There's also the psychoacoustic effect that higher pitches tend to be perceived as relatively flat compared to lower voices. For example, this is one of the reasons for "octave stretching" in piano tuning (in addition to string inharmonicity). So officially pitching an orchestral flute slightly sharp relative to the orchestra might make sense from that POV. I don't know.

Would piccolos have even a sharper pitch then? A=444?

[uillmann]

Orchestral pitches have been going up and down for centuries. Patrick Olwell showed me an article once, and from what I recall, the writer had charted the history of the pitches of all major orchestras worldwide. Generally, during relatively peaceful periods the pitches would mellow and go down. Conversely, during wars or periods of financial duress, pitches would rise to match the excited expectations of the frenzied public.