I'll be Bach..

[Congratulations]

So, while perhaps great respect could be due to a master, perhaps it could also be considered that perhaps even he, JS Bach, could have a human side, as well.

Even if that's true, be sure that he left them quite different than he found them. There is no composer with a greater insight into the very nature of music and how music works than Bach.

[cowtime]

The funny thing is that I am an Atheist but yet I get very emotional about many works of religious music.

Hmmm...perhaps there is a common musical thread in the tunes that really "get" you? Or you are picking up on the emotions the composer intended?



Or is it that you are wrong and it really is GOD sayin' "hey" to you...

it's my second night of being up waaaay too late at night and I can't think any more....

[chrisoff]

Dunno about Bach, but I love some gospel blues songs, even though the lyrics don't mean anything to me. Still can't stand christian rock though. It's like they forgot that it's still supposed to, well, rock.

But is there a point when the song meaning is too important to ignore? I can listen to religious inspired music and ignore the meaning behind the song or make excuses for myself to like it, but what about other stuff I disagree with? There's a certain type of hardcore punk for example that writes white supremacist songs, would it be ok to listen to that if the music was good? Personally I can't sell myself that argument, but it's a thought that occurs to me now and then when I hear Kelly Joe Phelps singing "I Am The Light Of The World" or some other religious song I actually like.

[Denny]

dubhlinn,

God is pursuing you.

Beat me to it!

beatin' bach

The funny thing is that I am an Atheist but yet I get very emotional about many works of religious music.

Or is it that you are wrong and it really is GOD sayin' "hey" to you...

nice shot dear!

[djm]

But is there a point when the song meaning is too important to ignore?

No, it has no more meaning than you choose to give it. It's all in your imagination. There's nothing wrong with imagining all sorts of things to the music, as long as you know enough to leave it behind when the song is over.

beatin' bach

No, that's the bach beat.

djm

[anniemcu]

beatin' bach

No, that's the bach beat.

djm

You can't lose it.

[Denny]

good to see you two again!

Nicely played

setup wasn't bad....IMNSHO

[CHasR]

So, while perhaps great respect could be due to a master, perhaps it could also be considered that perhaps even he, JS Bach, could have a human side, as well.

Well of course he was only human. Certainly had to deal with all the BS that goes along with being a working musician, with kids. in fact at one point he was living with wife & kids IN the same classroom wher he had to teach IIRC.

Even if that's true, be sure that he left them quite different than he found them. There is no composer with a greater insight into the very nature of music and how music works than Bach.

We hear JSB this way because his life work was a summary of the epoch prior. he absorbed diverse stylistic differences of works from the early 1700's, and re-cast them, so that we hear subsequent music through a 'bachian' lens..(for lack of a better analogy)
Previously harmony and counterpoint were regarded as opposing forces ( you could have one, but not the other in equal measure), look at early baroque composers like Montiverdi.
Melody and polyphony were looked at the same way: you coule make a polyphonic texture , but it wouldnt be 'cantabile', likewise, you could write a pretty melody, but it would be built on chords realized from figured bass, with just enough passing tones, suspensions, anticipations to give the illusion of polyphony.
JSB's unique skill was melding these four forces in to one unified whole, consicely, while preserving the seperate characterishs of each quality. Although the idea was 'in the air' at the time ( rameau, vivaldi, + handel all were chipping at the same idea)
We also have to consider the composers who influenced JSB and his tradition directly, Buxtehude, Pachelbel, Corelli, Legrenzi.
& as someone has already said (and as I was taught)
good composers steal material from other composers,
GREAT composers steal material from themselves, and there is no shortage of examples of this in JSB. You would too, if you had to write a new cantata every week.


one final thought: when Mendelssohn 'rediscovered' JSB several generations later, a lot of his works had been lost, "legend is" they were being used as wrapping at a shop Felix frequented. one likes to surmise these may have been the bawdy songs of Sebastian, eh?

[Flyingcursor]

It seems that some intervals have the potential for emotional impact regardless of genre. I really enjoy hearing a C and F# played together followed by a G and C#. It's pure rapture.

[dubhlinn]

~~

But for you, belief and atheism are both functions of the intellect, but music's metier isn't thought, it's emotion.

Bach's music communicates the emotional content of his religious beliefs, not those beliefs themselves. You don't have the beliefs, but you--everyone--has the emotions, and that's what you're experiencing when you listen.

Most interesting.

A fine thought indeed.

By way of returning the compliment I would like to let ye know that Guitar George, who knows all the chords is from Dire Straights song "The Sultans of swing"...nothing to do with Steely Dan at all, at all.

Having said that, Steely Dan take me to places that Bach never even knew existed.

Slan,
D.

[s1m0n]

By way of returning the compliment I would like to let ye know that Guitar George, who knows all the chords is from Dire Straights song "The Sultans of swing"...nothing to do with Steely Dan at all, at all.

Right you are. For some reason, I've always associated "Hey Nineteen" and "Sultans of Swing", without much liking either.

[dubhlinn]

Right you are. For some reason, I've always associated "Hey Nineteen" and "Sultans of Swing", without much liking either.

Another wonderful thought there from your good self.

"Hey Nineteen" is a truly great Steely Dan song whereas "The Sultans of Swing" is a very well crafted pop song.

It did cross my mind way back then that after the "Sultans" became a huge hit, every band that came after modelled their guitar sound on Knophler but before him every electric player was going for the Hendrix sound.
So many bands came out later and had great success but Knophlers trademark sound/riffs were ever present.
He did - Knophler, that is-(is there a h in Knophler?) make a great album with Chet Atkins and when Atkins was asked for his opinion of K. he replied..

"The guy can play but you can tell he's self taught."

Slan,
D.

[SteveShaw]

Music is a language of emotions that can't be expressed in words. Great music is devalued if you start describing it as "joyous," "sad," or even "emotional." To talk of it in these ways is to misunderstand it and to stunt your ability to let it realise its full potential. It's a mystery that, in spite of centuries of scholarship, remains inchoate in the human soul. I'm a terrible pagan but I'm moved by great cathedrals, the Book of Kells, the Pietas and all manner of religious art and music, and not just Christian either. No-one's going to tell me what should move me as I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself. I can't imagine life without the B minor Mass or the Goldberg Variations. But I think Beethoven outdid Bach finally with the Diabelli Variations, and certainly with the five late string quartets. I don't need to reason with myself why I like religious music.

[Cork]

..."The Sultans of Swing" is a very well crafted pop song...

Re: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lyh0dhCekt0

;-)

[Cork]

...But I think Beethoven outdid Bach finally with the Diabelli Variations, and certainly with the five late string quartets...

IMpnsHO, in terms of Western Art Music, nobody, but nobody, has ever outdone JS Bach.

Beethoven holds but a second candle, at most!