flute amplification

G1 · Post by G1 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:16 pm

Pretty much nails it. Playing in front of live amps and full drum kits >>> mic angled slightly down with nose pressed against it. I use an Audix OM5, because at about 3" out it rejects all signals and can be cranked in the monitors and mains without feedback or amplifying any other instruments from behind.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:21 pm

Nanohedron wrote:
Cathy Wilde wrote:...the nose can still serve as a curbfinder of sorts.
Works for me, anyway. It's less alarming than if yer flute bumps the mike.

not any better with a Boehm either!

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:33 am

I don't play gigs all that often, but when I do I use a little Audio Technica mic that I suppose is technically called a lavaliere mic. It has a clip that's probably meant to hook to your lapel or shirt collar in order to get the mic close to your mouth. From the mic there's a thin cord that hooks to the battery-operated power pack that clips onto your belt, and the standard mic cable plugs into that. For using this mic with the flute, I have a strip of elastic about an inch wide that I have fitted with Velcro to allow it to be looped tightly around the circumference of the headjoint with a little flap hanging out at the end that I clip the mic to. I position the mic so it's pointing toward the embouchure hole, either on the side toward the end cap or the side toward the finger holes, and adjust the distance from the embouchure hole as a fine-tuning method depending on how hot the board is that I'm plugged into. It's very important in this setup to use the windscreen on the mic. I got dirty looks from the other guys I was playing with the one time I misplaced the windscreen and was playing without it. The effect was very wind-tunnel like, they said. I have seen other flute players using mics like this with headstraps (the whole Madonna mic thing) and also with wireless setups that eliminate the need for a cable back to the board.

This setup actually works pretty well, for a total investment of about $100 ten years or so ago. It's what I used to record the couple of clips I have under my signature line (feeding into GarageBand on a Mac with a Griffin iMic pre-amp) if anyone wants to hear what it sounds like.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:16 am

My own experience with flute amplification is quite limited, and, so, this thread has been interesting, my thanks to all of you!

I have used a clip-on mic, and I can agree with Cat, in that the wiring can be troublesome, hanging up on things and getting in the way.

Nano, your upside-down-mic-on-a-boom is a great idea! My best attempt was to have the mic sideways, with the stand at the head joint end.

Denny, seriously, one of these days I'm heading off to the sandbox in the C&F basement. See you there?

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:36 am

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=198147

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:19 am

Denny wrote: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=198147

LOL! Thanks, Denny!

(Not to hijack the thread, but...) I began working with computers a few years before Unix was invented, and years and years before computers had monitors, back when a computer terminal looked like a teletype machine (and these are now in museums). I also learned a few programming languages, like Fortran, for instance. Yeah, that was a while ago. However, I never was much of a gamer, and I really haven't taken the time to learn much about computers in general. Therefore, I have a lot to learn, and I would appreciate some help, thank you.

(Back on topic...) I went to my music tool box. I think I gave my clip-on mic away a long time ago, and I can't remember what make it was. However, I found my regular mic, and it's a Shure SM 57, but I haven't used it since a year or two before the third millennium.

:-)

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:54 am

Cork wrote:Nano, your upside-down-mic-on-a-boom is a great idea! My best attempt was to have the mic sideways, with the stand at the head joint end.

Thanks. Sounds like yours might serve in a similar way. I just realised that since the breath goes downish, it made sense to position the mike to miss that, and further found the nose-as-curb-feeler thing to be helpful. I don't keep my schnoz pressed against the mike; it's just kind of a sort of measure that helps me keeps my sense of distance, and with that distance you don't have to set the mike too hot, either.

To further address fearfaoin, I'm not sure how my - or a similar, like Cork's - method would affect the projection of the sound of breath intake. That's a different nest of bees than the sound of outflow - especially as exhalation often hits the mike itself, depending on position - and I haven't asked others if my setup affects the sound of intake as comes out of speakers. I was at a concert last night; one player had a fair amount of hiss but no intake sound; another was quite the opposite. I just chalk it up to the charm of individuals and the instrument in live conditions. The mike'll kill ya every time.

Some players have more out-breath hiss than others; some have little to none. I've heard some players with no discernible hiss and with the mike positioned face-on. Ain't me, babe.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:55 am

Cork wrote:I found my regular mic, and it's a Shure SM 57, but I haven't used it since a year or two before the third millennium.

I've got one of those....
I've seen it since we've moved here.
I think that it's somewhere in one of the garages (yes I know which one)
I've been looking for it for about a year and a half...off & on....

I'd bet anything that I put it somewhere safe, where I could find it.

eejit

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:41 pm

Cathy Wilde wrote:the nose can still serve as a curbfinder of sorts

'love the curb finder....however it does leave the mustache hair to be caught in the wind screen....

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:12 pm

Denny wrote:
Cathy Wilde wrote:the nose can still serve as a curbfinder of sorts
'love the curb finder....however it does leave the mustache hair to be caught in the wind screen....

Hey, I've done that, ouch!

;-)

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:12 pm

Wind screens are for lesser mortals.

There. I said it.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:45 pm

troll!

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:33 am

FWIW, I was playing last night with a (fairly casual, i.e. non-rehearsed) Barn Dance band (at least, that's what it would have been called anywhere in England before the words "ceili" or "ceilidh" started getting bandied about around 20 years ago - and apparently the current generation of Young Farmers think a "Barn Dance" means a disco in a barn, not a folk dance with a caller....... sad!) I've been co-opted into and used my Microvox on my flute (still needed a stand mic for my whistle and piccolo (the "strap on" takes up too much space to be convenient on the latter). The band's amplification is a fairly basic desk with no monitor speakers, so it isn't that easy to hear what one is sounding like, but I deliberately tried breathing and even blowing onto the Microvox's little wind shield as well as gasping in air with it about 2cm from me gob - couldn't really hear anything from the speakers, but it was picking up and putting out the flute just fine. I think the frequency response set-up on Microvox is specifically tailored for the flute, so maybe it it actually eliminates the hiss frequencies? We play sitting down in that context, so the wire to the belt pack and the cable to the amp aren't problematic issues. I can put my flute down on a case on the floor beside me to pick up another instrument with the belt pack still on without any danger of dragging anything about. It's less convenient if playing standing, though, although one can turn down the belt-pack volume and unplug the mic from it without causing any nasty noises to the amp (with any sound system I've yet used it with).

MarkP · Post by **MarkP** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:07 am

Depends on the occasion and the setting really (e.g. empty stage/recital or full on rock gig). A couple of options in addition to the trusty SM58/57.

You could try a telescopic condenser gun-barrell mic, with a narrow pick up pattern but good range, placed above and targeted down (there are some amazingly cheap ones about with excellent quality). Depends how much else is going on around and behind you and what's coming out of your floor monitors really (if you have them). Most of these battery or phantom powered condensers have more than one distance setting (e.g. 'conference') and you'd be surprised how little extraneous noise they pick up at a foot away. Great for recording.

Another option is to do what the more mobile rock vocal performers do (e.g. Madonna etc.), which is to use one of the newer and higher quality headset mics with a radio transmitter on your waistband and preferably an earpiece monitor. I'd say about an inch away (and about 45deg up and to the side of the air hole to avoid knocking it or blowing into it, uness you like excessive 'chiff'). Haven't seen anyone else doign this but it works and you can't wander away from it.

clark · Post by **clark** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:17 pm

Well I've been around and around with this over the years and have tried many different things. While the SM or Beta 57 or 58 are great (the Beta 57 is my back-up) I find I don't like being locked into a static position in front of a stationary mic. When I've had to do that, at the end of a three hour gig my neck is stiff and hurting. So I am partial to more portable options.

Here is what I've been using for the last couple of years with great success/sound. A Shure MX183 MicroFlex Lavalier

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/ ... 83_content

Get the OMNIDIRECTIONAL head. This might seem counter intuitive, but here's the deal: Omnidirectional condenser mics do not have the handling noise problem that cardoid condenser mics do. With a cardoid the sound of your fingers hitting the flute is transmitted loud and clear. This is particularly true of good lavalier mics. Crappy ones don't have so much handling noise, but they don't have so much quality of sound either. So doesn't the omnidirectional mic feedback, you ask? No, because you have it very near the sound source and thus the volume is low and so it doesn't pick up ambient sound (including your fingers). Since it is a good mic the lower volume still has good natural sound of the flute.

I run this mic into a Shure wireless system on my belt so I can move anywhere I want. Because during gigs I play a D, C, and Bb flutes plus various whistles, I also needed to be able to transfer this mic to other flutes quickly and easily. The "strap-on" option is not flexible enough for me. So I took apart one of those tuner clip things, attached the mic and, presto, there I had a spring loaded mic that can soundlessly transfer to any flute or whistle in seconds. Hopefully pic is below.

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Works for me, although admittedly this is not the budget solution if you aren't playing a lot of gigs. The mic is $280 and the Shure wireless system goes for about the same I think.

Clark