Glottal stops, newbie student needs help, please!

[Rob Sharer]

Nothing to do with C's, K's, or G's will produce a glottal stop, which happens further down. This is not a matter for debate; no amount of practice (or repetitious argument) will turn a consonant sound formed in the mouth into a glottal stop.

Now, when this topic came up with one of my students, I suggested that he rent the film "Dune." You may want to check this out for yourself: watch what happens when Paul Atreides and his mother are accosted by the Fremen after escaping from the sand-worm (stick with me here). Stilgar, leader of the Fremen, says something like "I will take the boy-man; he shall have sanctuary in my tribe." He also makes a little coughing sound - a lovely glottal stop, all on its own! You laugh, but my student managed to get the concept this way. Whatever it takes...

Rob

[jim stone]

Is it the difference tween a G and a C?
God and Cup? G comes from deeper in the throat.

No, teh difference there is that in G is voiced (the vocal chords are vibrating), but C is not.

Every consonant has a place of articulation- where your tongue, or wahtever else, does somethign to define your breath and/or larynx vibration. T and D are alveolar bnecuse they take place at the alveolus, P and B are labial becuase they take place at the lips, K and G are velar beuase they take place at the velum, etc. A glottal stop takes place at the glottis, or larynx- the vocal chords. You dont' use the tongue tho, of course. Just "pop" your glottis instead of vibrating it. It's very simple, and everyond not only can do but does it on a regular basis; but it's hard to explain.

Thanks. I'm sure I can do this. I once learned how
to wiggle my ears, after all. The only problem I had
on that score was that I couldn't stop.

[daiv]

Is it the difference tween a G and a C?
God and Cup? G comes from deeper in the throat.

No, teh difference there is that in G is voiced (the vocal chords are vibrating), but C is not.

Every consonant has a place of articulation- where your tongue, or wahtever else, does somethign to define your breath and/or larynx vibration. T and D are alveolar bnecuse they take place at the alveolus, P and B are labial becuase they take place at the lips, K and G are velar beuase they take place at the velum, etc. A glottal stop takes place at the glottis, or larynx- the vocal chords. You dont' use the tongue tho, of course. Just "pop" your glottis instead of vibrating it. It's very simple, and everyond not only can do but does it on a regular basis; but it's hard to explain.

Thanks. I'm sure I can do this. I once learned how
to wiggle my ears, after all. The only problem I had
on that score was that I couldn't stop.

i find the glottal stop is easier with an open throat. the glottal stop of uh-oh has the throat very narrow. open your throat as if at the doctor and say "ahhh" then cough without moving your tongue at all. it is the same movement as with uh-oh with your glottis, but the uh-oh openess will make the note crack, whereas the doctor one wont!

if that makes any sense.

EDIT:
actually, the doctor's "ahh" with a cough is still not open enough for my liking, but its a step in the right direction.

[AaronMalcomb]

The t-k technique is done in the mouth, but apparently the glottal stop is done in the upper throat.

Basically, that calls for a serious study, for closing the throat runs across the grain, so to speak, but, as promised, I will give it a fair try.

Like I said in the thread which begot this one, it's the anatomy of glottal stop that matters. The epiglottis is what you want relaxed and open to maximize air flow. The glottis is lower than that and that's what you contract and release to articulate a note.

I'm afraid I don't remember the Woody the W laugh, nor
the Elmer Fudd laugh.

Woody Woodpecker

[rama]

bend over, put a peanut between your buttcheeks, and cough while humming '"the battle hymn of the republic". don't let go of the peanut. this practice will help open the throat so that the classical flautist may get in touch with their glottis. drop the peanut, it must be eaten. this is by far the best method. never fails.

[Mal]

If you can whistle DIXIE you know how to make glottal stops! What's the big deal?

[AaronMalcomb]

bend over, put a peanut between your buttcheeks, and cough while humming '"the battle hymn of the republic". don't let go of the peanut. this practice will help open the throat so that the classical flautist may get in touch with their glottis. drop the peanut, it must be eaten. this is by far the best method. never fails.

Should one work up to a walnut and then perhaps a coconut?

[Wormdiet]

Hammy Hamilton and somebody on this board (Cocus?) described the GS as a very light, unvocalized cough. That seemed to work for me.

Next question: WHEN does one use the glottal? It seems to me that some players use it to articulate a downbeat with a bit of emphasis, whereas others use it more to separate non-emphasized notes. At the moment I am usually a downbeater, but willing to try anything. Thoughts?

[BillG]

It can be used effectively to start every note or to emphasize particular notes, or the downbeat as desired. I use it for most notes unless the tune would be better without it - most songs (airs) are legato and don't require much emphasis. Maybe at the beginning of a phrase, or sentence. Triplets need this emphasis and, as most things, require much practice. I'm still working on it.

I use glot'l to begin almost every note on my chromatic harmonica as opposed to using tonguing. It is much softer. Maybe a polka needs more.

[Cathy Wilde]

Why, whenever you need a nice sort of grunty stop, of course!

OK, seriously, I've had apparently OK (none of my teachers has complained about it) results using the alternative method to double-tonguing that all us old classical folks were taught, i.e., the "duh-guh" approach ... it's the "guh," half-swallowed, of course.

To me it has a totally different color than tonguing, so I use both ... tonguing when I want lighter, crisper articulation and glottals when I want more "heft." I seem to use them most in the lower register, and especially on low D and E and my attempts at cranns on them (cf the B part of "Maid at the Spinning Wheel" or those big cranns on "Humors of Ballyloughlin." Tonguing those to me would just sound way too girly.)

Rama, you so funny. I tried it and the peanut flew out and got stuck up my nose. Now what do I do? (I know, I know, blow it out my ear)

[Cork]

... it's the "guh," half-swallowed, of course...

This is what I suspected. It's likely the K sound of the word choke.

1) I have a taste for ITM.

2) I have regret for having said loathe and detest, in regard to traditional ITM technique, and I offer apology.

3) I am a good student.

[Cathy Wilde]

Mmmm, it's probably not even that much of a K; more of an actual choke than the "K" in "choke," if that makes sense.

And good on ye for diving in. It's the hardest music I've ever played, but it's fun as all get-out. Godspeed!

[Cathy Wilde]

Aha! I know why the peanut flew out. My head was already in there and taking up too much room.

[Rob Sharer]

I say again, it's not the "K" in choke, nor any other consonant sound produced in the mouth. It's produced with the vocal chords only; the tongue, palate, teeth, and whatever else you have in your mouth are not involved at all. You can't contrive a word fragment or syllable to represent it. Even a cough doesn't quite cover it. It's a glottal stop! Find an experienced player and have it demonstrated for you. Cheers,

Rob

p.s. Anybody watch "Dune" yet? That wasn't a joke.

[Jim Troy]

"The Elmer Fudd Method of Glottal Stopping "
i love the idea !

and the Elmer Fudd laugh , can anyone do that ?
i can never make up my mind was it an evil chuckle, or what .
i know a lady who is otherwise totally a lady , but will do that laugh, when a she sees someone getting into a twist over something ..

i'm going off now to cough into this wooden tube ..

" big breath , and ... cough please "