Mary Bergin Feadoga Stain

[Roger O'Keeffe]

That's a lot of tunes to transcribe. If you do it accurately, I'd be interested in getting a set. Hang tough.

If I can make a suggestion as I've transcribed a load of tunes over the years... My technique has evolved and I've arrived at what I think is the easiest system I can manage:
Listen to the tune a number of times at full speed, then listen again at about 75% speed and try to get a lot of it into your head. Then, slow the recording down to about 50% and get down at least 4 notes (of a reel) at a time. If you have a lot of it in your head already, you'll be able to briefly memorize a full measure or so and get it written down.

Use a text file on the computer rather than a paper and pen/pencil. (All the letters you use are on the left hand.) You can use the cap lock for runs of lower octave transcription. Type 4 measures on one line and keep things lined up vertically. That will allow you to see repetitive phrases and you can listen while visually reviewing a previous line and get it all put down at once. Here is a sample of a transcription. Notice how you can look at the lines and see the structure of the tune and its repetitions.
The Fairy Child

EBB ABd |BAG FGE |EBB ABd |Bed B3 |
EBB ABd |BAG FGA |Bed BAG |ABG E3 |

fed Bee |dBA Bde |fed Bee |dBA B3 |
fed Bee |dcB AGA |Bed BAG |ABG E3 |

Bee gab |afa gfd |Bee gab |afa g3 |
bag fga |gfe dBA |Bed BAG |ABG E3 |

gfe def |edB Bef |gef d2 f|edB d3 |def
gfe def |edB AGA |Bed BAG |ABG E3 |

Have fun.
Tony

Lots of good advice there, Tonio.

One of the things that I hate about the black dots people is that they don't see the merit in providing intuitive hints like your suggested alignment to show up the repetitions.

Another of my bugbears is the way they beam together notes in a way which disregards the phrasing - notably where the last note in a bar (measure) is the upbeat of a phrase that is part of the following bar. By beaming it with the preceding notes they send a message that it belongs with those notes, and sight-readers unfamiliar with ITM faithfully and leadenly reproduce this wrong phrasing.

[kenny]

The accompaniment is played on bouzouki by Alec Finn, whom I have it on good authority does actually possess a device known as a "capo"

[pancelticpiper]

To get even an approximate idea of the various articulations, you can do the following (which most "legit" musicians should be able to sightread):
1) slur/tie notes together which are played completely legato with no articulation whatsoever
2) notes not slurred/tied are seperated by tongue but are still played to full value
3) notes with a bar or dash over them _ are a bit more seperated but still not staccato
4) notes with a dot over them . are played staccato
Those should get you fairly close.
By all means you need to figure out what key whistle she is using for each tune, because that affects a lot more than just the key the tune is rendered in, it affects the way it is played, as certain things are done on certain notes on the whistle that are not done on other notes. For example most whistlers, uilleann pipers, and flute players do a B-C#-D triplet which leads up to the middle D of the instrument in question (on pipes that D is called the "back D"). Mary, unlike a lot of other players, also very often does a C#-D-E triplet. Her propensity to use these triplets has a huge impact on how she arranges the tunes she plays, and it would be very misleading to render her playing in incorrect keys, as for example these triplets would then show up on notes that she in fact would never play them on.

[TonyHiggins]

Another of my bugbears is the way they beam together notes in a way which disregards the phrasing - notably where the last note in a bar (measure) is the upbeat of a phrase that is part of the following bar. By beaming it with the preceding notes they send a message that it belongs with those notes, and sight-readers unfamiliar with ITM faithfully and leadenly reproduce this wrong phrasing.

Very true. My method fails in the same way, only giving you a way to memorize the melody notes easiest.

To get even an approximate idea of the various articulations, you can do the following (which most "legit" musicians should be able to sightread):
1) slur/tie notes together which are played completely legato with no articulation whatsoever
2) notes not slurred/tied are seperated by tongue but are still played to full value
3) notes with a bar or dash over them _ are a bit more seperated but still not staccato
4) notes with a dot over them . are played staccato
Those should get you fairly close.

An example of this level of notation can be found in The Dance Music of Willie Clancy, which is transcriptions of recordings of his piping, and written as standard notation with a lot of dots and squiggles to describe the above. It's no joke to try to tackle one of those transcriptions.

So, we still have to acknowledge the supreme importance of hearing the actual playing to get the best idea of what's going on. Like Pan said, these are approximations, though I'd say helpful ones.

There's a lot to be discussed about tying legato notes together and the slight shifts in timing, the tonguing and slight pausing, etc. that create phrasing. I'd be intimidated at the thought of writing this stuff out.
Tony

[TonyHiggins]

Another of my bugbears is the way they beam together notes in a way which disregards the phrasing - notably where the last note in a bar (measure) is the upbeat of a phrase that is part of the following bar. By beaming it with the preceding notes they send a message that it belongs with those notes, and sight-readers unfamiliar with ITM faithfully and leadenly reproduce this wrong phrasing.

Very true. My method fails in the same way, only giving you a way to memorize the melody notes easiest.

To get even an approximate idea of the various articulations, you can do the following (which most "legit" musicians should be able to sightread):
1) slur/tie notes together which are played completely legato with no articulation whatsoever
2) notes not slurred/tied are seperated by tongue but are still played to full value
3) notes with a bar or dash over them _ are a bit more seperated but still not staccato
4) notes with a dot over them . are played staccato
Those should get you fairly close.

An example of this level of notation can be found in The Dance Music of Willie Clancy, which is transcriptions of recordings of his piping, and written as standard notation with a lot of dots and squiggles to describe the above. It's no joke to try to tackle one of those transcriptions.

So, we still have to acknowledge the supreme importance of hearing the actual playing to get the best idea of what's going on. Like Pan said, these are approximations, though I'd say helpful ones.

There's a lot to be discussed about tying legato notes together and the slight shifts in timing, the tonguing and slight pausing, etc. that create phrasing. I'd be intimidated at the thought of writing this stuff out.

Then, there's also the notion of making a tune your own as opposed to copying someone elses rendition. Copying, however, is a great learning exercise. My own inclination is to transcribe the melody with very little regard to where the performer put his/her ornamentation. I like to figure mine out over time. I will mark a squiggle to note something interesting happened here. (I transcribe a lot of fiddle tunes, so, you know...)

(By the way, I've looked forward to this type of discussion showing up on this board. There is a ton that can be discussed without getting into the metaphysical ineffible or the 'who's qualified to comment on the sacred' that passes for advice sometimes. This is largely passed over as if inexpressible.)
Tony

[falkbeer]

Hi
I am going to notate all the tunes on Feadoga Stain this week. If anyone wants a pdf copy when I'm done, let me know.
Can anyone help me with translations of the gaelic titles? As written on The sessions is right?

Ok. here goes.

Haven´t that been done already? Nice project thought.
I´ve done a lot of transcriptions myself, everything Rob Gordon tunes and The Cieftains to chinese folk tunes. Slow airs are actually the hardest to translate into a usefull notation. The most important decision for you is to decide what you want to achieve and the level of your transcription.

I imagine it works like this:

1. A standard version of a tune exisists either on paper or in the collective mind of people
2. A musician interpretes this standard version
3. The audience makes an interpretation of the musicians rendition.

So your decision will be if you want to achieve step 1, 2 or 3.
3 is your interperation of the music.
2. is a direct - everything is there - transcription.
1. You have worked backwards, and like a music detective, been able to reconstruct the urtext of the music or the standard tune.

My goal is always step 1 - to go beyond a crude transcription. For me is´s like as sport. When I hear a jazz tune I´ve never heard before, which is based on a standard I´ve never heard before - I ask myself the question - what would the standard tune look like in a fake book if such a standard tune would exist? Very often this it doesn´t exist - but if?

To make a comparison with language. A crude transcription would be like an exact phonetic transcription of a foreign language. If you have a good ear this is possible even if you don´t actually know the language. Possibly a nativ speaker would understand if this transcrition would be read to him.

However, if you know the language well, and are familiar with it´s grammatical system, rules of spelling, vocabulary, and so on, you can look beyond the spekers idiosyncrasy, his dialect, and even mistakes, you can reconstruct his speech and make a version which would be printable in, for instance, a newspaper. This would be equal to achieveing a "standard" version of a piece of music.

But ofcourse, sometimes an exact transcription of a tune can be educational too. There exsists a lot of the type of transcription in the category - "Body and soul" exactly as played by Hawkings. Often horribly hard to read though when even the most minute rhytmical nuance have been translated to a piece of sheet music! Interesting but useless from a practical standpoint. It´s often better to have standard version on paper and work out the rest by ear.

Good luck with your work!

[kenny]

How did the transcribing go ?

[squeezebox99]

still working - enjoying the commentary and the great suggestions. falkbeer hits the nail on the head.
Once I transcribed some fiddling of Rayna Gellert - from a masterclass I attended. It was supposed to be included in an article for fiddler magazine - I had transcribed the notes, the bowings and the phrasings...
The editor chose not to include the transcription because Rayna felt people should "learn by ear" - but I disagreed. The phrasing and the bowings were/are the heart of the matter and being able to see where it happens is helpful.
Nobody can ever, ever be a mary bergin clone - so I'm not too worried about being too specific. I will not transcribe some of the ornaments exactly - but will indicate rolls, cuts, taps as best I can with symbols.

Fun, fun. Will post the whole thing somewhere so it's downloadable. Anybody got the real album (I got mine from itunes) - and can send me a scan of the cover so I can put it with the book? Thanks
Margaret

[cavefish]

i will take a copy in the key of D-------when ready

[tin tin]

I will also indicate the keys she plays in - which so far seems to be Bb and Eb - - interesting choice.
Poor mando player. M

Eb and Bb are common whistle keys--there's nothing quite as lively and responsive as an Eb Generation, which suits her brisk playing, and Generation's Bb whistle is a nice, mellower change of pace. As for Alec Finn's bouzouki playing (tuned D-A-D, I think), a capo at the first fret would make Eb as accessible as D.

[squeezebox99]

Have the shell of Ril Gan Ainm set out.
A question for the transcribers

1. I am not transcribing the "lilt"
2. When writing triplets and two sixteenths + eighth - - - - the same deal?

Curious. I know there are two note graces she adds, but the triplet figure - is it a real triplet you think?
MM

[MarkP]

Have begun looking at Ril Gan Ainm

Careful not to mix that one up with the tune of the same name then...

Seriously though, a grand ambition and having seen some of her performances and articulation transcribed... I wish you luck!

Have a look at Steve Jones' transcripton and commentry of Over the Bridge (played on an Eb) if you haven't seen it.
http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/ ... ridge.html

And yes, do transcribe as if played on a D.

Looking forward to seeing the results

[TonyHiggins]

The phrasing and the bowings were/are the heart of the matter and being able to see where it happens is helpful.

I believe that copying someone's playing (with or without transcription) will teach you to identify ornaments and tricks so that you will understand better what you are hearing the next time it shows up. So, I'm all for a precise transcription as a learning tool.

I was listening to the reel, Eileen Curran, on one of Bergin's cd's. I thought that transcribing that would be a monster of a job. Have fun. You have my full moral support.
Tony

[armlann]

Arise Zombie Thread! Any progress here? Looking for Liam Ó Raghallaigh. Thanks.

Jon