Caroluna wrote:[Have you 'met' Glauber Ribeiro? (flute player from Brazil now living in
Chicago) I recently got his CD "Wellsprings 2: Joyful" . It's not Irish
Traditional music, but is beautiful flute playing.
If it is possible to generalize on the topic of thumbholes for simple-system, open-holed transverse flutes, I think that the concensus is that small thumbholes, as is used on recorders, quenas, and some whistles, are not necessary, with the minuses outweighing the pluses. One of the obvious minuses of having a thumbhole on a transverse flute is that the hole must be completely covered most of the time, and any small venting of the hole will affect the tone production of the other notes. Having to have your thumb fixed to a certain position on the bottom of the flute greatly restricts the positional freedom that you otherwise would have without the thumbhole. The C natural thumbhole on the low D flute is a possible exception to this conclusion.
I think that instruments with a fipple or fixed embouchure have a greater need for a small thumbhole which can be slightly vented to help bring in some of the notes that would be otherwise difficult to play. With the embouchure hole on a transverse flute, the experienced player has greater control of the production of the notes so that the additional control of the venting of a thumb hole is not needed.
Cork wrote:Honestly, I must admit, that I have never seen, or heard, a side-blown flute with six holes on top and a thumb hole. That sounds more like an end-blown recorder. So, could you give me a description of it, please?
Nope... Recorders have seven holes on top and a thumb hole. :)...
I stand corrected, and my thanks to you, Matt_Paris. In my defense, however, let me admit that I have not had a recorder in my hands at any time within the past ten years, or so.
Cork wrote:Honestly, I must admit, that I have never seen, or heard, a side-blown flute with six holes on top and a thumb hole. That sounds more like an end-blown recorder. So, could you give me a description of it, please?
My McGee GLP has a C thumbhole. If you look down the flute from the head, and have the toneholes at 12:00, then the thumbhole is at about 4:00 or 4:30, and midway between the L1 and L2 holes (apologies to southpaws). It makes for a very in tune C natural, and is a breeze to use, once you get used to it. Some of the other members here have them as well.
Live and learn, as a saying goes.
Yes, a C thumbhole makes a great deal of sense on a six-hole flute, although I admit to never having seen such a thing. The Irish flute I have been using for about the past ten years can produce a C natural, with a fingering such as OXX OOO, but it need to be humored somewhat in order for it to be in tune.
Cork wrote:Honestly, I must admit, that I have never seen, or heard, a side-blown flute with six holes on top and a thumb hole. That sounds more like an end-blown recorder. So, could you give me a description of it, please?
No Sweetheart,
it just sounds like you haven't ever seen
a transverse simple system flute
with 6 finger holes and a thumbhole.
There is nothing potently catalystic about a thumbhole
that it turns a transverse flute into a recorder... :D
Ironically, my Irish flute (with no lower thumbhole) was made by Ralph Sweet, of Sweetheart fame.
Andre wrote:Hey y'all!
I'm new here, posted once or twice on the messageboard, mostly on the whistle part of it.
It's not Irish Traditional music, but is beautiful flute playing... lol:
<!--breath of relief-->
Thank goodness, as, for the first time on this board I am able to say that there really are other musics out there which altogether can be beautiful, without being ITM, not that I mean to knock ITM because I absolutely do enjoy that, too.
Doug_Tipple wrote:...One of the obvious minuses of having a thumbhole on a transverse flute is that the hole must be completely covered most of the time, and any small venting of the hole will affect the tone production of the other notes...
As I recall, the second octave of a recorder employs the use of the underside thumbhole. However, apparently sometimes the thumbhole is opened fully, and sometimes it is half-holed, or something like that.
So, as my question, why could the thumbhole not be made to a correct size, so that it simply could be open, or not?
Doug_Tipple wrote:.......
One of the obvious minuses of having a thumbhole on a transverse flute is that the hole must be completely covered most of the time, and any small venting of the hole will affect the tone production of the other notes.
......
This is why its so important that it be in right place for each player.
I had Terry McGee put thumbholes in my Wicklow D (Seery) and also the Eb and E you made for me Doug.
Never looked back.
I wouldn't ever consider such a hole in my large bansuris because
they need bansuri grip (a type of pipers' grip) with both hands and the thumb is not in the "right" place for an effective thumbhole when you use that grip.
Doug_Tipple wrote:.......
One of the obvious minuses of having a thumbhole on a transverse flute is that the hole must be completely covered most of the time, and any small venting of the hole will affect the tone production of the other notes.
......
This is why its so important that it be in right place for each player.
I had Terry McGee put thumbholes in my Wicklow D (Seery) and also the Eb and E you made for me Doug.
Never looked back.
I wouldn't ever consider such a hole in my large bansuris because
they need bansuri grip (a type of pipers' grip) with both hands and the thumb is not in the "right" place for an effective thumbhole when you use that grip.
Don't get me wrong; I am not against having a thumb hole in the position of C natural on a low D flute or in any key in the same position. I do think that it is difficult to find the position beforehand unless someone already has a flute of the same diameter and fingerhole layout to find the ideal thumb position. As Talasiga has indicated, because people hold the transverse Irish flute in so many different ways, there wouldn't be such a thing as a universal or one-size-fits-all thumb hole. That being said, I have a C natural thumb hole on my personal flute and I never use it. I have tape over it, and I play a cross-fingered C natural. However, I do think that having a small venting thumb hole in the position of the thumb holes on the quena or recorder is not such a good idea on a transverse flute. That is what I was trying to say before.
Andre wrote:Hey y'all!
I'm new here, posted once or twice on the messageboard, mostly on the whistle part of it.
Oi Andre, tudo bem?
Pardon the off topic folks, but I had to say hello.
My previous job was with a botany professor-- who asked me to take
classes in Portuguese so I could read / transcribe his field notebooks.
My Portuguese classes were taught by a wonderful lady from Porto
Alegre. So just seeing the name of that city brings back wonderful
memories. Tenho saudades do Brasil!
Have you 'met' Glauber Ribeiro? (flute player from Brazil now living in
Chicago) I recently got his CD "Wellsprings 2: Joyful" . It's not Irish
Traditional music, but is beautiful flute playing.
OK, back on topic, sorry for the digression
Caroluna, or perhaps in Portuguese that should be Cara Louca
Edited to correct my spelling, o meu Portuguese e' muito enferrujado
Carolina
Nos seus olhos fundos
Guarda tanta dor
A dor de todo esse mundo
Eu já lhe expliquei que não vai dar
Seu pranto não vai nada mudar
Eu já convidei para dançar
É hora, já sei, de aproveitar
Lá fora, amor
Uma rosa nasceu
Todo mundo sambou
Uma estrela caiu
Eu bem que mostrei sorrindo
Pela janela, ói que lindo
Mas Carolina não viu (Chico Buarque)
Thanks for the kind words. I'm so glad you liked the CD!
I used to be a regular in the flute and whistle boards here a few years ago. I'm Brazilian, living in the Chicago area of the USA. If there's anything i can do for you, a PM should reach me.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog!
--Wellsprings--
Hello, Glauber. Sorry that you became a mere lurker after nearly 5,000 posts on C & F. We miss you. FWIW, with only 40 more posts, we could have your 5,000 party.
is a longstanding member of this 
