Underrated Flute Makers?

[Loren]

And back on topic: I think Copley/Boeglie flutes are still underrated, particularly when you consider the combination of playability, quality workmanship, consistancy (something not so often talked about around here) and customer service.

Loren

[toddyboy50]

Let's not forget our own Jon C on the short list of flute makers.... even though his work is favorably mentioned quite a bit here, I think often the newer makers are automatically under-rated compared to the "big" names - even given the inarguable benefits of experience, I still wonder how players (and listeners) would rank flutes in a total blind test, not predjudiced by the maker's name -

Tod

[GaryKelly]

I suspect price and waiting times have a lot to do with it.

Let's face it, the flutes most often mentioned on the board are generally in the sub-$500 dollar category, and usually because folks new to the flute are asking for something to start out on. This inevitably results in a flurry of recommendations for flutes within the newby's stated price-range (Tipple, Burns) and then rapidly escalates through to a few flutes outside the stated price-range (M&E, Seery, Jon.C) with the occasional recommendation to 'buy the best you can afford' (even when the enquirer has already stated a maximum affordable price).

Most newbies aren't going to be spending over grand and waiting anything from 6 months to 10 years for their first flute, which is why Hamiltons, Grinters, Wilkes's's', Murray's, Copelands and all the other expensive hand-made wooden flutes don't get so many honourable mentions, except from those who are no longer newbies and have had the wonga and the patience to wait for one to be made for them. Or who have had the wonga and grabbed one second-hand when it became available.

If Mr Wilkes was retailing flutes at $250 with no waiting list, I strongly suspect we'd all have one.

When

So what do you think is the best Flute maker that rarely gets mentioned here? I would have to say Phil Bleazey, we have all heard of him, but only a couple of us (Chas, Mr. Nate[usually lurks I think], and Myself) play his Flutes, I love mine and the price is not bad at all.

I'm not entirely sure what he means.

The Bleazey was my first wooden flute. There is no way you'll hear me saying Phil Bleazey is "the best Flute maker that rarely gets mentioned here." The Bleazey is a good affordable wooden flute, if a bit 'rustic'. It was convenient having the maker in the UK, particularly when I wanted it serviced and re-tuned after the first year of ownership.

New makers have a tough time establishing a genuine reputation for consistently producing good flutes. It also takes time to acquire the skills needed to consistently produce good flutes. If their flutes are cheap, they'll sell more, and thus get more 'practice' making them, thus improving their consistency... and so on. If they're expensive, who's going to invest in an unknown quantity?

edited to add: I see Loren posted about consistency afore I did

[Loren]

Good points Tod and Gary. In addition, I wonder how consumers would rank these same instruments if they (the customer) were a bit more educated in regards to workmanship and knew what to really look for in a well made instrument. I am often appalled when someone hands me an instrument that they believe to be "really well made" only to find spur marks all over the tenon ends, sockets that are not cut centric to the body of the instrument, tone and embouchure holes that are crudely finished, bores with hideous reamer gouges, poorly made and/or fit rings, and generally crappy keywork.

I've got no problem at all with economy or "price point" instruments, as there is definately a market for such things, I just find it a bit frustrating that most people can't tell the difference between the most well made instruments and those that are merely "average" at best, particularly when I see raves about these same instruments.



Loren

[BMFW]

I wonder how consumers would rank these same instruments if they (the customer) were a bit more educated in regards to workmanship and knew what to really look for in a well made instrument...


..I've got no problem at all with economy or "price point" instruments, as there is definately a market for such things, I just find it a bit frustrating that most people can't tell the difference between the most well made instruments and those that are merely "average" at best, particularly when I see raves about these same instruments.

Loren

I think this is one good reason to excercise caution when reading reviews of maker's work. Most reviews for the "entry level" instruments are what I would term "consumer reviews". The reader has no idea of the skill level of the reviewer and this somewhat devalues the review. Once you get higher up the ladder of makers, you know that Wilkes, Murray, Hammy, Grinter et al, are being played by really good players and the evidence of the (sound) quality can be heard on numerous recordings.

I am all for people giving rave reviews of their particular favourite instruments but I worry that others may not question the credentials of the reviewer as they should.

[Jon C.]

Loren wrote:
Either way, there's also the issue of methodology: Mr. Wilkes has a reputation for preferring handwork, as opposed to CNC and the like. Both have their advantages, but clearly, if you're going to do virtually everything by hand, then the work is going to take longer. (Does anyone know for certain if Chris is mostly hand forging his keys these days, or doing primarily cast?)

Andrew writes:
You might tell the Pifflers that Chris does hand forge his keys.
In 40/50 years time cast ones might become crystalline in structure.
If he made flutes for the money he would not put the great amount of
adjustment time into each one to get it to his satisfaction.
The quest for perfection drives him.That does not allow delegation.
Andrew

[treeshark]

I suspect Chris Wilkes might be amused to be called underrated...
He does everything himself, forging the keys, making many of the tools he uses he even makes the boxes himself. He also I suspect spends a fair bit of time voicing each flute after it is made - reaming out to strengthen a note I think this is called chambering, this must be a terrifying procedure with the chance of ruining all the work before... It was facinating seeing the process with so many different skills required and quite long gaps between the different machining stages.
All in all not a business for the impatient!
Rob

[Sillydill]

Just to add my 2 cents worth for two makers! *Note, I’m a curmudgeon who really likes all wood flutes!

Fred Rose makes what I consider the Biggest Bang for the Buck in a new Irish Flute. They may be austere in appearance, but the one I had produced a very good tone and had exceptional intonation (~$300 U.S.).

Dave Copley makes excellent flutes, with great voicing and intonation, they are powerful yet expressive and colorful to play. His workmanship is also consistently excellent, his joints shut tight, inside the bore as well preventing condensate from collecting in the joint where the endgrains of the wood are exposed. I especially consider his all wood 3-piece model to be grossly underpriced (~$500 U.S. including shipping).

[rh]

seems to me the name "Martin Doyle" is frequently coupled with the word "underrated" in the flute forum here. can't speak on his flutes from experience though.

my favorite flute is made by the late Glenn Schultz (RIP); i'll never part with it. though it must be said, i am a hack flute player.

[treeshark]

I'm very fond of my Doyle flute - everyone should have one!

[Loren]

OT here again:

Jon C.,

Since you seem to be in contact with Andrew, please ask him to convey to Mr. Wilkes that Dave Skillen says hello and sends his regards. Chris should, I imagine, remember Mr. Skillen from his visit to the Boston area some years ago.

Loren

[Jon C.]

I suspect Chris Wilkes might be amused to be called underrated...
He does everything himself, forging the keys, making many of the tools he uses he even makes the boxes himself. He also I suspect spends a fair bit of time voicing each flute after it is made - reaming out to strengthen a note I think this is called chambering, this must be a terrifying procedure with the chance of ruining all the work before... It was facinating seeing the process with so many different skills required and quite long gaps between the different machining stages.
All in all not a business for the impatient!
Rob

Hi,
When I brought up his name it was with the the thought that he was seldom mentioned, not meaning that anyone felt his flutes were underrated.

Loren wrote: Since you seem to be in contact with Andrew, please ask him to convey to Mr. Wilkes that Dave Skillen says hello and sends his regards. Chris should, I imagine, remember Mr. Skillen from his visit to the Boston area some years ago.

He still reads the threads here, I just pass on his sage wisdom...

[Chang He]

Ya don;t hear a lot on this boad about Copeland flutes, which is odd because

1) He's been at it for decades and

2) He has a website.

I have no real experience with his work other than that one of my local session buddies has one. He makes it sound great.

I'm curious about this one too. He does make some highly sought-after whistles, but I can only find a few posts mentioning the flutes.<a href="http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=250822">Like this one.</a>

[Loren]

Jon,

Ah, well no doubt then we're providing him plenty of entertainment, as usual

Loren

[Unseen122]

The Bleazey was my first wooden flute. There is no way you'll hear me saying Phil Bleazey is "the best Flute maker that rarely gets mentioned here."

Why not? Phil has been making Flutes for about 20 years, that is why I think he is underrated as a maker. So when someone asks for a Flute in the $500-$700 range, why does it seem that I am the only one mentioning Phil? Now my point in starting this thread was not to brag about my Bleazey Flute, but to ask if anybody else can think of Flutes that are rarely mentioned, but are great whether you have owned one or just tried it out.

I also think Glenn Schultz was better known for his Whsitles, but damn where his Fltues nice. I only had the opportunity to play one once, but it was excellent. It had the tone and the volume it was like the best of both worlds, and that was only with playing it once or twice.