how long before you have 'it'

The Sporting Pitchfork · Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:15 am

[ as Lao Zi writes in the Tao Te Ching: the more you know, the more you realize you don't know.

No different with the flute. Practice.

G[/quote]

Very, very true. I like the language comparison. I speak Japanese and definitely have my good and bad days. Sometimes, I can just chatter away, fill out forms, etc. Other days, (particularly if I have to meet with my ogre-like boss from the local board of ed.), everything I know goes flying right out the window and I can't say or read a thing. It's the same with the flute. I've been playing for almost seven years now and I had some great days at the beginning and I still have terrible days now. Some days, I can just pick it up and play and go flying through a bunch of tricky fast tunes at a session, other days, as Paul McGrattan famously put it, I can't get a note out of it. Not once have I ever felt entirely "comfortable'' with the instrument.
I remember Iain MacDonald, a brilliant flute player and piper from Scotland, said that it took him about twenty years to feel comfortable playing the flute. That's not the least bit surprising, even though early recordings of him show him to have been a fantastic player even after only a couple of years playing the instrument.
It's an instrument. It's a lifelong adventure, and "getting there" is not just half the fun, it's all of the fun. If any of us flute players, even Matt Molloy or some other flute deity, got up and felt like we had acheived complete satisfaction with our playing ability, there wouldn't be much point in playing anymore, would there?

FSnockhart · Post by **FSnockhart** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:42 am

I know what you mean -- I have the same experience both with languages and with the flute.

I speak Spanish and am tutoring a Spanish-speaking person near me in English. I speak fine with her (with some use of the dictionary), but if I have to talk to her parents, who don't speak a word of English, I freeze up completely.

On the flute, I play fine at home. But when I go to a session or try to tape myself practicing it totally falls apart. I've had good sessions -- usually larger sessions when I'm way in the corner and it seems like no one is paying any attention. But boy I've had clunkers. Especially when certain very judgemental people come to the sessions and tell everyone else what to do and not do. It makes me feel very self-conscious.

I've been playing about 7 years. (Lessons for one year, somewhere around year 5, and then I moved away from my teacher). The first year was all about not squeaking and making all of the notes sound. The second year some of the tunes started sounding like music rather than a collection of notes. The third year I had one lesson and spent the next year trying to de-classicalize my playing. I didn't really get ready to play anything at session speed until fairly recently (somewhere late in year 5 perhaps). It wouldn't kill me to know more tunes. The frustrating thing about moving, even from DC to Philadelphia is that the tunes that everyone plays at every session are different, so it's sort of like starting over.

As someone who picked up the flute later in life, I'm always aware how much less I know than the people who have been playing ITM since they were four. Perhaps I will never catch up. On the other hand, I mostly play the flute to please myself, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

I'd practice about 6 hours a day if I had them (and if my husband was a musician himself or was deaf and didn't care). About 2 days a week, I'm lucky to get an hour in due to my bizarre work schedule. However, the boxwood flute I just bought demands to be played EVERY DAY, so I need to make some adjustments. Hopefully an hour is enough for my long days. Anyone aware of a minimum for flute care?

smoro · Post by **smoro** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:10 am

I want to tell my own experience, similar to others ones:
I've been playing flute over the the last 12 years more or less. Every year I could see any improvement, I can play any tune since some years ago, but ONLY IN THE LAST YEAR the sound of the flute began to be the one I was looking for. I'm sure in five or six years this feeling will be the same.
Serafin.

beowulf573 · Post by **beowulf573** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:12 am

FSnockhart wrote:
As someone who picked up the flute later in life, I'm always aware how much less I know than the people who have been playing ITM since they were four. Perhaps I will never catch up. On the other hand, I mostly play the flute to please myself, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

I think this is an important point, I'm doing this strictly for my own pleasure. As long as there's progress being made and each month is a little better than the month before, I'm happy.

Well, that and as a long as dogs don't howl when I play and folks in the session don't pack up and leave when I assemble my flute.

For myself I think this ties into another aspect of my personality. I'm not very competitive with other people, but I am against myself. I started a marathon training program a few weeks ago and I'm amongst the slowest in the group. However, it doesn't bother me because I can see the improvment and every time I go out I'm competing against what I've done before, not what other folks are doing.

Eddie

FSnockhart · Post by **FSnockhart** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 6:51 am

beowulf573 wrote:

>Well, that and as a long as dogs don't howl when I play and folks in< >the session don't pack up and leave when I assemble my flute.<

Personally, I am fond of the question: "Are you just starting out?"

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:59 am

Just keep at it

and don't get discouraged, and don't let the begrudgers get to you, either.

Turn off the TV, get off the internet, and practice every day- if you give it an hour every day, you will like the results.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:33 am

I've heard from makers that a flute needs to be
played at least three times a week, one would suppose
for an hour or more--these are least likely to crack. Best

rama · Post by **rama** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:33 pm

I didn't want to seem too discouraging so I didn't post 'til now.

I was once told by a mighty player (and teacher) that it would take seven years of playing every day to be able to play with comfort and ease. So let's assume he meant 1 hour of practice each day (minimum). That's 356 x 7 = 2492 days. If you can't play every day then let's break it down to number of hours of practice... So the magic number is:

2492 hours of practice then you'll know if you have "it".

beowulf573 · Post by **beowulf573** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:57 pm

rama wrote:I didn't want to seem too discouraging so I didn't post 'til now.

I was once told by a mighty player (and teacher) that it would take seven years of playing every day to be able to play with comfort and ease.

Over the past year I've heard 3, 5 and now 7 years.

Anyone want to give me a 9?

I'm viewing it as a series of stages, with no final destination.

Well, other than death that is.

Right now I'm aiming for the 'reels at a decent clip with the a nice roll or two' stage.

rama · Post by **rama** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:30 pm

Sure, I can accomodate you, the magic number for nine years is:

356 x 9 = 3204 hours of practice

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:32 am

Well it sounds to me like I`ll be knock knock knocking on heavens door Just when I might finaly have it. Well thats cool. I do know I`m over the first big hump and can play about 8 tunes pretty much when ever I want to. And I will stick with those 8 until I like the way thay sound. They are jiggs and airs and even a 30s jazz tune. A month ago I was on the cusp of bagging it. Now I wouldn`t quit playing this thing if my life depended on it. I play just for myself now and don`t plan on changing that in the near future. There are days where I realy get lost in the sound of this instrament. I can`t wait to get good. I will be a very happy camper when that day comes. Might even try busking when that day comes. Anyway I love listening to you all talk about it. Make me feel pretty good.

Tom

BillG · Post by **BillG** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:39 am

Like all things we humans do we get hung up on plateaus. Things seem to go along nicely then POW - dead end and no progress. Or worse, WORSE!

There's been a great thread on woodenflute this week about embouchure development and improvement and similar comments - "Mulvaney/Claudy" and various titles. This came at a perfect time for me since my embouchure collapsed - or got rerouted or whatever, last week - again.

Thanx to this list and that one I reread the posts and looked up some others I had saved and POW! A flight off the plateau!

One article commented on covering the embouchure hole by 2/3 rds. I tried that but it was a bit much so I rolled backe slightly and POW again! right on.

Another article commented on diaphram control for octave changes. One of the authors stated that he could not do it but heard others may. I recalled a Boehm teacher of mine years ago saying, "stop the lipping and use your diaphram." That was about 25 years ago and I didn't have a clue what she was talking about. I worked on it yesterday and POW! again.

Now my Healy takes on a new glow (it was there all the time but I couldn't find it).

Like was just said, many times I'd want to slam the flute/s down on the window sill and quit but these lists keep on posting encouragement. Guess that's why I'm posting this epistle on my recent breakthrough.

Keep on keepin' on seems to be apprapoe here.

BillG

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:27 am

rama wrote:Sure, I can accomodate you, the magic number for nine years is:

356 x 9 = 3204 hours of practice

I hate to have to tell you this rama, but there are 365 days in a year, not 356. Therefore, for 7 years it would be 2555 hours, and for 9 years it would be 3285 hours (and that's not counting leap years).

Then again, nobody can actually say "it takes this long to get good"! Some people will take a lot less time, some a lot more, and some may never get it. As long as we all enjoy the ride and keep making some progress, that's what it's about.

Steven

rama · Post by **rama** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:28 am

Thanks Steven for the correction, that's what happens when I stay up late. No wonder I felt nothing after 2492 hours of practice. So 2555 is the real magic number. One can expect a huge shift in their playing at hour 2556, a miracle of miracles . There are exceptions for leap years.
And of course for Eddie that would take place after 3285 hours.

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:04 pm

Of course, it's perfectly acceptable to play MORE than an hour every day as long as you don't hurt yourself in the process.

On average, I play between 15 and 20 hours a week, including sessions.

Going after the music with this kind of aggression will get you over a lot of plateaus if you don't let yourself get discouraged.

You're going to get older anyway, you may as well get older and better, right?

All the best