New pennywhistle material

Rod Sprague · Post by **Rod Sprague** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:41 pm

I just got an idea for a new whistle material today, CVD diamond. It is a type of diamond that can be slowly built up a millimeter an hour on a form. The form could then be dissolved away, and you now have a solid diamond pennywhistle! I could go into the technical details of how this is done, if anyone wants me to.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:48 pm

Hmm, haven't they been "Growing" artificial diamonds this way for years? Or is this some new (faster) process for making artificial diamonds?

Loren

Rod Sprague · Post by **Rod Sprague** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:55 pm

The technique has been around for a while, but I think I could actually do the process at home easier than I could make a glass whistle, an idea I’ve wanted to try for some time.

Rod

SocketGoat · Post by **SocketGoat** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 9:45 pm

1mm/hour? That seems rather fast for diamonds. But the idea intrigues me. It would make a beautiful whistle. But how durable would it be? My initial guess would be that any crystalline structure grown so quickly would be insecure at best. Rock candy comes to mind, too

I would love to hear more on how this could be done (at home?!)

/Socketgoat (Adam)

knorris908 · Post by **knorris908** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 9:51 pm

Rod Sprague wrote:The technique has been around for a while, but I think I could actually do the process at home easier than I could make a glass whistle, an idea I’ve wanted to try for some time.

Rod

Well, no one would be afraid of it breaking...

On the other hand, you'd have to include a disclaimer that it was NEVER to bo played under ANY circumstances if the player was suffering from post-nasal drip.

Ewwww....

Seriously though, I'd be fascinated to learn the resonance factors of a "diamonelle" whistle. I'm thinking Bright, Pure, and thin due to the high density, and low malleability. It seems to me that the distinctly softer metal whistles have the warmer qualities, while metals with higer rigidity, and lower malleability offer Brighter, More focused, sometimes thinner sound quality.

If you're serious about this, I think that it is a fantastic experiment. You might want to search first, to be sure that something like this hasn't already been done. I'm sure that SOMEONE out there wanted to impress their social circle with something as unusual as a diamond whistle, or flute. People with too much money spend it on the weirdest things.

Please keep us posted on your progress. I for one am fascinated if you are serious.

Kenneth

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:02 pm

Uh...

Has anyone given any thought as to how one would drill or polish this stuff? I'd imagine both are beyond the capability of the average home, or even small industrial workshop.

Rod Sprague · Post by **Rod Sprague** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:31 pm

I am quite serious. I got the idea because I was thinking of making CVD diamond at home for another long term project I intend to work on over the next few months; http://www.fusor.net/ , I am going to build a fusion reactor at home. On the discussion board, http://www.fusor.net/board/index.php?site=fusor , the subject of using doped CVD diamond as an electron emitter got me thinking that it could be made at home by an ambitious amateur scientist, so I looked up what is actually involved in making CVD diamond; http://www.ornl.gov/lsm/projects_surface_nonlinear.html and http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/pt/diamond/end.htm . I would already have most of the parts to build my fusor, so it wouldn’t take much more work to build the CVD diamond setup. The temporary structure I would deposit the diamond on would make the inside of the whistle smooth. I would have to make a working well in tune whistle that would be used as the mould to base the temporary structures on, before I would have anything to deposit the diamond on.

Rod

lixnaw · Post by **lixnaw** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:48 pm

Rod Sprague wrote: I would have to make a working well in tune whistle that would be used as the mould to base the temporary structures on, before I would have anything to deposit the diamond on.

Rod

hey rod,

maybe it's a good idea to use a burke composite. they are fragile but they also stand any kind of temperature.

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:30 am

Souns like a Crysta************<<<<<<<<<<////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ ~]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]>>>>>>>>abort

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:19 am

knorris908 wrote:
Well, no one would be afraid of it breaking...

Diamond is hard, but brittle.

Have you ever seen any significant amount of CVD diamond? It's really rather unattractive stuff. I've seen wafers of it that were about the color of the red/brown/whatever Susatos, although it's usually kind of a smoky grey.

Also, you really do have to worry what you grow it on. It's a high-energy process, so the local heating might be up to several hundred degrees C, which precludes most materials. Also, you can't grow it on iron, nickel, or a few other metals -- it just dissolves in them.

Rod Sprague · Post by **Rod Sprague** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:18 am

I’m thinking graphite-coated iron, which the iron is easily dissolved or broken down electrochemically, relative to anything else refractory enough. I would sputter coat it with enough graphite to survive long enough to keep the iron and diamond apart during the initial part of the coating process. As far as being ugly, that never stopped many a maker of whistles. Brittle could be lived with, like with glass flutes. I get the impression that they would be labor and material intensive and consequently expensive, so it would make sense to include a custom padded case, if someone were to sell them.

Rod

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:28 am

First, Rod, with all due respect, let me just say I'm really happy I'm not living in Idaho. You are Meddling with Things Best Left Alone, lad!

Why not use a thin porcelain tube for your support, and remove it with hydrofluoric acid? And the diamond - I'd love to see it doped to a red-brown like the Baumgold Brown Diamond - what a beauty! Or you could make it cape by slightly doping it with iron, then put it at the end of your particle accelerator to make it green!

As to composite whistles as forms - well, I don't think most of 'em would withstand several hundred degrees C. I think you'd have a pile of ash, in fact. Brass would be a nifty, shiny puddle, as would copper or alumin(i)um (sorry, Stacey), but a Village Smithy coated with graphite would do nicely.

serpent

Rod Sprague · Post by **Rod Sprague** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:41 pm

Funny, but I don’t find the idea of building a fusion reactor in my living room very frightening, much as I don’t fear eating wild mushrooms, but driving a car on public roads gives me the willies. On public highways, I’m surrounded by complete strangers that I have no idea what their driving skills are, and things happen way too fast to allow me time to get out of deadly situations caused by other peoples’ stupid errors. I’ve eaten over a dozen different species of wild mushroom without so much as a stomachache as I have never eaten anything misidentified. When I build my reactor, I will make sure I’ve shielded it properly, checking my math at least three times and not going a kilovolt over what it is intended for and making sure I don’t give the radiations this slightest gap to escape from. I have a wide-eyed, sober, thorough, well thought out reaction to anything that can put others or myself in danger. The reactors can put out neutrons, but we are more than ten orders of magnitude from practical breakeven.

Rod

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:49 pm

Have I unknowingly stumbled upon the Stargate SG1 message board?

~Larry

Rod Sprague · Post by **Rod Sprague** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:10 pm

No, the cold war against the Crysta************<<<<<<<<<<////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ ~]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]>>>>>>>>abort

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