What does a REAL irish flute look like?

[mr.thomasschmidt]

Hi.

I have been playing irish flute for about 3 years. I have a 3 piece Doug Tipple and a 5 piece M&E R&R model. They are both nice to play and sounds good. But I would like one that looks beautiful as well. I have had my eyes on Ormiston, Skip Healy and Peter Noy.
The reason I'm writing now is I'm getting a little confused now as up until now I have only decided whether I want a flute with or without keys and if it should be a Pratten or R&R model. But as I'm looking on the makers homepages a lot more options are opening up and that confuses me. I thought I knew what an irish flute was but now I'm not so sure.

First question is therefor: With keys or without; with long or short or no foot joint; 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 pieces; with tuningslide or without; black wood, cocus wood or delrin? I want a traditional irish flute, one that when people sees it they think "Oh, that's an irish flute". Not "Well, if it REALY should have been a REAL traditional irish flute you should have chosen this on".
I won't be able to buy another flute for some years so I want to get it right first time.

Second question is, does anyone know of these three flutemakers, George Ormiston, Skip Healy and Peter Noy?

I know that it's not so much as how it looks but how it sounds but I really would like a nice looking one

Kind regards
Thomas

[jim stone]

What do you think you will be doing with the flute, e.g. playing in sessions?
That's probably a good place to start thinking things through.

[ImNotIrish]

It could look like a steamboat! Who cares? You really should be asking yourself, what SOUND do I want it to LOOK like?

[Denny]

thar green, ya dey are

[MTGuru]

Funny, probably the last question that occurs especially to other musicians who are non-players of instrument X is: What kind of X is he playing, and how does it look? For those people, the flute you want is something that looks like a black stick with holes in it, and maybe some optional key thingies.

As for other flute players, well to heck with them. It's yourself you need to satisfy for both looks and sound. So what do you want?

[jemtheflute]

There's no such thing. Really.
But you can look at the pics sticky here.
All three of those makers are well-known and reputable. So are lots of others. See also the Makers List.

[Cubitt]

Since I understand what you're trying to determine, I will simply answer your question in accordance with my opinion and not offer any judgments as to why you've framed the question this way. It is a legitimate query.

Answser: Eight-key in four or five sections made out of cocus wood with silver or german-silver keys and rings at each joint. The head may or may not be lined in metal (I prefer lined). I also prefer wood blocks to support the keys as opposed to metal pins screwed into the body of the flute.

That, for me, is the classic "Irish" flute. So called because that's pretty much all it has been used for for about a hundred years.

Cheers.

[jim stone]

good answer. I prefer lined, too. Six-keys OK too.

[m31]

If you're going to dress for the part, you may as well go all the way.

[beor uaine]

I second Cubitt's response. That's a description of the typical Irish flute, at least as I think of it. (Not that my beginner's opinion should count. )

[pflipp]

All looks have a practical reason behind them. That's why there's so much choice to begin with.

For instance, the number of pieces:
2: You'd need at least 2 pieces to have a tunable flute.
3: The foot joint would make the 3rd piece. For an unkeyed D foot flute, there is often no need for this small extra segment. On a keyed flute, this can provide alignment with your pinky. I have never seen C foot flutes with an integrated foot, and it doesn't seem practical to me.
4: Some makers split the flute in to a left hand (LH) and right hand (RH) section. This allows you to change the setting of you hands and requires smaller pieces of wood and reamers, while it may be a little challenge for things like the G# keyhole placement.
5: The fifth piece would probably be the barrel, which is only there because the head joint is split "in two" by a tuning slide.

Which brings us to the tuning slide. It helps the instrument to maintain its tone even if it has to be pulled out quite a lot to be in tune. It was invented in a time when tuning differences could be excessively large. These days it is more for the fine ear, which can still detect some tone degradation when the flute gets extended by the socket instead. Whether or not that's a minor issue could be up for debate. The price of a tuning slide may help you pick sides

As for wood, cocuswood AFAIK is only found on old instruments, which I believe is related to its availability. You might have been thinking of Boxwood. Just search for topics where people discuss the qualities of either. Delrin is your all-weather variant; ebonite is its somewhat more lightweight cousin.

In closing: if you're looking for quality, none of this information will help you. I have seen some of those Pakistani flutes discussed here, and they look beautiful (to the untrained eye, though), but they just refuse to emit any sound. That's when people will tell you that you have made a wrong choice! All the other variety is just there to make other people jealous of your particular flute choice, whichever it turned out to be.

[Thalatta]

You might find the best answer to your question on the following link where you'll see many different young and older traditional Irish flutists in Ireland, champions and all, with nice close-ups of their flutes: http://www.youtube.com/user/comhaltas

Have a look at what they play and I think it's safe to say that if the flute you choose looks like that, then you have an "Irish" flute!

But if you want a flute that was also made by an Irishman in Ireland who knows what he's talking about and whose flutes were among the first "Irish flutes", then buy a keyed OR keyless Hamilton flute (www.hamiltonflutes.com). There are many others of course, all over the world, making highly praised Irish flutes, and perhaps the guys here on the forum can tell you about them...
Shane

[tucson_whistler]

the only thing i would add is where do you live? i see you didn't fill out your profile... but you might think about going with a maker who is more local; it makes certain things easier (shipping is cheaper, repairs are easier, etc).

there are great makers of Irish flutes in most locations; you might lean towards one in Europe (Hammy Hamilton, Thomas Aebi) if you live there, or one in the US if you live here (David Copley, Patrick Olwell), or one in Australia if you live there (Michael Grinter, Terry McGee).

just a suggestion.

cheers,
eric

[MikeS]

Apparently, I've been misled. I had figured that real Irish flutes were like the ones I'd see in pictures from the 1950's and 1960's. It appeared to me that the way to make a real Irish flute was, roughly;

-Begin with any eight-key simple system flute made in the 19th century;

-Remove all the keys, making a special effort to lose or break the short F key (Jon C. so loves making new ones);

-If you decided removing the keys was too much trouble, at least turn the foot joint so that the Eb, C#, and C keys were not in a position to disturb your resting pinkie;

-Cover the holes previously covered by the keys with electrical tape;

-(optional) Use a wood chisel to remove any key blocks that got in your way;

-Install a couple of hose clamps to close up that crack in the barrel;

-Instead of almond oil, seal the bore with a generous coating of nicotine-laced tar.

While the above is admittedly done tongue-in-cheek it does address the reality that, for most of the history of traditional Irish music, traditional Irish musicians did not have much discretionary cash. They used whatever they could get their hands on and played the pudding out of it. You could do worse than follow their lead.

My own test would be this. Sit in between two randomly selected people. Play a reel. About half way through look down. If both of them are tapping their feet then you are indeed in possession of a real Irish flute.

[jemtheflute]

Apparently, I've been misled. I had figured that real Irish flutes were like the ones I'd see in pictures from the 1950's and 1960's. It appeared to me that the way to make a real Irish flute was, roughly;

-Begin with any eight-key simple system flute made in the 19th century;

-Remove all the keys, making a special effort to lose or break the short F key (Jon C. so loves making new ones);

-If you decided removing the keys was too much trouble, at least turn the foot joint so that the Eb, C#, and C keys were not in a position to disturb your resting pinkie;

-Cover the holes previously covered by the keys with electrical tape;

-(optional) Use a wood chisel to remove any key blocks that got in your way;

-Install a couple of hose clamps to close up that crack in the barrel;

-Instead of almond oil, seal the bore with a generous coating of nicotine-laced tar.

While the above is admittedly done tongue-in-cheek it does address the reality that, for most of the history of traditional Irish music, traditional Irish musicians did not have much discretionary cash. They used whatever they could get their hands on and played the pudding out of it. You could do worse than follow their lead.

My own test would be this. Sit in between two randomly selected people. Play a reel. About half way through look down. If both of them are tapping their feet then you are indeed in possession of a real Irish flute.

You forgot to mention keeping it in the rain-butt by the back door and pouring Guiness libations down it if you suspect a leak when playing.....