Poll: How do you learn Irish traditional tunes?

[hans]

It is always a hot debate how folks should learn ITM tunes, how ITM is an aural tradition, etc. So here is a chance to vote honestly and let us know how you learned, in generally, meaning for the majority of tunes.

I am curious to find out what is done, not what is supposed to be done, or desirable.
You can elaborate in an answer, or add another option about how you learn, and which I did not include in the poll.

I did not include options to use slow down software. Using a slow-downer would be part of "by listening to recordings". Also learning directly from musicians may involve slowing down tunes. So I did not wish to muddle the poll with such details, but perhaps I should have.

How many "versions" are used for learning is also an interesting question, which should merit a poll of its own.

[Mr.Gumby]

Maybe 'learning by heart' is not the best way to put it. It makes the process of learning a tune sound like you sit down and memorise a string of notes. I don't think that's really how it is.

[hans]

Hmm, you may be right. I can leave the "by heart" out.
For me "by heart" means that it is well in my heart, not just my head, that I can play with feeling, not just mechanically.

Okay, I changed it. Simpler is better. Thanks!

[fiddlerwill]

Do ye no think yer poll is a wee bit restricted?! Id answer all of the above, only I've never used midi,though I agree its a pretty usefull resource fae those who cannae read music.

and look at no 1?! Its no an answer tae the question Talk aboot a dodgy poll!

[MTGuru]

Maybe 'learning by heart' is not the best way to put it. It makes the process of learning a tune sound like you sit down and memorise a string of notes. I don't think that's really how it is.

Right. Also, I'm not sure you can break things into such discrete and exclusive choices as above, since any or all (except #1 and, god forbid, #3) may apply. Or generalize about tunes, as learning one may tune may be completely different from the next. Also, internalizing a particular tune is a process, not an endpoint, and both the process and the tune may evolve over years.

There are tunes where you have the A part from a CD, the B part from a mate, the C part from a session recording, the D part from you don't remember where, measure 10 from something you saw in O'Neill's, and measure 14 from an idea you scribbled down at breakfast. And the next time you play it the pieces may be from a completely different combination of sources, or made up on the spot.

Just saying. Things can be far more complex and subtle than black-and-white Chiffboard discussions may imply.

[hans]

Surely you have one main way of learning a tune?
The question is about how you learned most of the tunes you play.
And I know that may have changed in the past, and you may learn today in a different way than how you've done in the past, or at the beginning. But I don't know how to accommodate that in the poll, therefore the question is simply about "most tunes".

That was an answer to Will. -

Yes, there are perhaps various options all used to learn a tune, but what is the option/method you most employ? I know it is simplifying things. Such polls can never reach scientific standards...

[hans]

and look at no 1?! Its no an answer tae the question Talk aboot a dodgy poll!

I changed this now to:
1. I need to read sheet music to play most tunes.

Is that clearer?

[benhall.1]

In the early days of my interest in this music, I learnt some tunes direct from musicians and some from notation. I would say that all of the tunes I learnt from notation, I've had to re-learn from listening. I now learn most tunes in sessions, although I get a fair few tunes direct from other musicians still, and some tunes from dots from friends. I hardly ever listen to recordings. Most of the time I hate having music on. I'd rather have peace and quiet.

[fiddlerwill]

Ok, Im sorry I picked holes in yer poll! but in all honesty I dont have 1 way of learning tunes. I guess its a holistic approach. Besides over the 35 yrs Ive been playing my learning methods have changed . For the first 20 yrs I learnt everything by ear cos I couldnae read music. aboot 15yrs ago I laboriously taught myself to read and now I learn mostly from the dots. Its much easier and quicker for me. But , unlike Ben, I listen to trad every moment Im not playing it! LOL Sure I even sleep with it on [ I made that bit up ]
Seriously though For me my listening is exclusively solo fiddle, solo pipes with the odd duet mostly older recordings . I have no interest in bands, though I have played in them all my life. I really enjoy playing with a backer and I am a backer, but I dont listen to music with backers.
Because Im constantly Immersed in the music the tunes seep in, the dots are really a handy way to reference and structure my learning. When I sit in sessions I pick up a majority of tunes fairly easily, but they go in one ear and out the other . I try to catch names then go back and find them at home. I find having them on paper is just so handy, If I forget the begining ,at first, I can go back to them, some I get quickly , some never really get rooted, but when they are played in sessions I already have an idea of them.
So all in all , like MT said its a combination effort. I couldnae really separate one aspect of my learning , the dots, from the listening and from the sessions.
IMO the most important part of picking up tunes by ear, at first, is to get a teacher or slow downer/looper. this will help you become familiar with the process and enable you to pick them up on the fly at speed.

[chas]

I voted listening and writing it down, although I do some strictly by ear and some strictly by dots. I'm pretty much a visual memory person, so I do the beginning of learning by ear and commit to memory by eye.

[JTC111]

I picked one, but like others, I don't only use one method.

[Innocent Bystander]

Fair question, Hans, but there is more to it than that. When I started, I played tunes I had heard. When I improved, or thought I had improved, I found that my recollection of the tunes I had heard was so faulty that I looked out some sheet music. Even when I found recordings and played them over and over again, there were some that my ear just couldn't get. The Kid on the Mountain was probably the most glaring example.

These days all sorts of things prompt me to start learning a tune. Somebody might post a Youtube link here, for instance. I might hear it at a Ceilidh or on TV (stranger things have happened). Now and then I read references to sets where I think I'd like to play a complementary tune, and so set out to learn it. People sometimes post ABCs, and I like the look of them.

Now, I'll admit that part of my motivation in all this is to know the names of all the tunes I play. I started playing one that I had heard at a Ceilidh, and if I remembered who played it, I might have some chance of finding out its name. I'd rather make up a new name for the tune than to call it "Gan Ainm", which feels like failure to me.

Most of the tunes I set out to learn, these days, I set out with sheet music of some kind (and years later, find exactly how far I've varied from the original). But what prompts me to learn a tune, that's a different matter.

[hans]

I picked one, but like others, I don't only use one method.

Fine. Shall I allow more votes than one? How many? But what about "mostly"?
I hoped that by asking for what is used mostly, and only allowing one vote, it will concentrate minds, and give a more accented result. Weighted voting would be cool, but it is not possible.

I am all for constructive ideas how to improve the poll.

[DrPhill]

I wondered if I should risk skewing you poll, as I am neither a good player, nor an ITM purist. I am glad to be able to play recognisable tunes.

However, I picked number 4, as I find it easiest to get pitch from the dots, and rhythm by ear. I have on rare occasions picked up tunes from recordings only. My skills do not extend to picking up anything at sessions - except maybe the free chips.

[benhall.1]

Hans, I think that the replies to date show that this is actually a really interesting topic. I for one like the way you've structured your poll, as it tends to lead to a general discussion, as is in fact happening.

What could be better?