Ornamentation - where did it come from and how...

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Redwolf
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Post by Redwolf »

On 2003-02-12 20:10, Soineanta wrote:
If you listen to traditional Irish "sean nos" singing, it makes great use of very similar ornamentation techniques..
I've been wondering about this, and might as well not start a whole new thread.. but what exactly is "sean nos" music? I've heard the term alot, but don't know what it means. (Obviously, or else I wouldn't be asking...)
"Sean nos" means (I believe) "old style." It's a traditional form of Irish solo singing that uses melisma and other forms of ornamentation to add color to the tune, rather than harmony or dynamics. Done well, it's really very lovely.

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TonyHiggins
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Post by TonyHiggins »

I don't know, but always assumed ornamentation was a rhythmic imitation of step dancers' (hard shoed) rhythms, at least as far as dance music goes. If it's copying bagpipe music, well, maybe they're mimicing the dancers' rhythms???
Tony (Really, I haven't a clue.)
While the topic of bagpipes is up, I just got Drones and Chanters Vol 2. Wow.

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carrie
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Post by carrie »

On 2003-02-12 19:27, peeplj wrote:
Classical music of all kinds is rife and thick with ornamentation, it just happens to be different ornamentation than is used in Irish music....There are trills, mordents, inverted mordents, tremolos, flattements, gruppetto (turns), graces, subdivisions, and God-knows what-all else.
Jim,

I'm quite surprised--shocked even--that you failed to mention the groundbreaking work of Fred Palmer in his Compendium of Little Known and Deservedly Obscure Baroque Ornaments (San Lorenzo, CA: Musica Sacra et Profana, 1976). As Palmer so deftly explains, all of the ornaments in his compendium "are so natural that they can easily be executed by even the beginning performer." Although space does not permit my reproducing all of the ornaments, or "aggravatements," as they have come to be called, that he has collected in this remarkable little volume, the following are just too important to omit. I've played many of them myself, I might add. Both the examples and the commentary are from Palmer's historic reference work.

Image
This ornament is commonly found in oboe literature. Beginning players discover it almost immediately.

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This ornament is often found in modern editions of eighteenth century music.

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This ornament occurs when several instruments play the same written note.

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This is one of the oldest and most persistent ornaments in music. It can be traced all the way back to Gregorian Chant where it was known as the "mea culpa."

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This ornament is a favorite with modern performers of baroque music.

I hope these will shed some light on the history and evolution of ornamentation in Irish Traditional Music.

Carol
Last edited by carrie on Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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peeplj
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Post by peeplj »

Carol, you are a treasure! :smile:

How could I have forgotten these? :lol:

Especially the Mea Culpa...when I played in the recorder consort in college, I did many of those!

Playing music without bar lines where one player has one meter and the rest another taught me many things, including the skill of cursing in about five different languages. :wink:

It was fun though. When everybody's cookin and the playing is tight, early music has its own unique charm and beauty.

In fact, some of the Renaissance dance tunes remind me sharply of ... (drum roll please) ... Irish dance music! Who'da thunk it?

Carol, thanks for making me smile on a rainy damp evening when even the stones catch cold.

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carrie
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Post by carrie »

How could I have forgotten these? :lol:

Especially the Mea Culpa...when I played in the recorder consort in college, I did many of those!
I might add that the approximatura is just as common in vocal as instrumental music. The vocal ensembles I was part of were especially fond of that ornament. :wink:

Carol
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blackhawk
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Post by blackhawk »

Carol, I think that's the funniest post I've ever seen on C&F! :lol:
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Wombat
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Post by Wombat »

:lol: Somebody please carry me out of here. Carol that is too funny. :lol:
janice
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Post by janice »

Baroque ornamentation is suprisingly close to much of the Irish ornamentation-I read a very interesting study last year where the author traced the historical development of ornmentation-his theory was that Irish/Scottish ornamentation is deritive of Baroque ornamentation that got stuck in a 'time warp'-akin to archaic speech in many parts of the New World...
Cool......
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Post by jim stone »

Yes, yes, very funny.
You know music probably goes
back a very long time,
maybe millions of years.
Homo something or other
has been around nearly
three million years.
One wonders when it started,
but I'll betcha it was
early, well before Homo
Sapiens. And when did
instruments begin?
Voice came first,
then percussion, I'll
betcha. And ornamentation?
Something like that would
have started with drums...
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Post by MarkB »

Carol thanks a lot for the lesson. I play OOOOPS A LOT!

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carrie
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Post by carrie »

Well, thanks and kudos to Fred Palmer for his brilliant parody (accurately sited in the original post, btw), which also includes such heretofore little known ornaments as the:

*Thrill (indicated with x's where the note would be, and usually occuring "at the climax of the piece")

*Castratement ("A rather sterile ornament which should be cut off as soon as possible")

and this favorite of wind players, widely used in ITM among Guinness drinkers as well:

*Belchment

Palmer's "research," apparently done in cahoots with colleagues at Oberlin and CSU, strives to fulfill the goal common to all such research into early ornamentation: to "not only help create a solidified approach to baroque music but also [to] serve to petrify both musician and scholar alike." Hats off to this fine team of musicologists, Palmer especially, for their outstanding work.

All I can be credited with is keeping a straight face and never throwing anything funny away. :smile:

And Janice--can you point me to that article? I'm really interested! --Thanks


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cskinner on 2003-02-14 11:29 ]</font>

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Paul
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Post by Paul »

I,m glad to learn that they all have names. :lol: Those are hilarious!
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MarkB
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Post by MarkB »

I am so happy that I asked this question and LMAO at the reference desk. I just showed this to the music librarian and I thought he was going to pee his pants.

Brilliant absolutely brilliant Carol!

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carrie
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Post by carrie »

I just showed this to the music librarian and I thought he was going to pee his pants.
Oh yes! We can't forget the Peeinpantsment! That's the one you play, all by yourself, during the otherwise dramatic moment of silence, as the conductor glares at you. It is written, of course, as an "accidental."

Carol
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Post by Bloomfield »

On 2003-02-14 12:34, cskinner wrote:
I just showed this to the music librarian and I thought he was going to pee his pants.
Oh yes! We can't forget the Peeinpantsment! That's the one you play, all by yourself, during the otherwise dramatic moment of silence, as the conductor glares at you. It is written, of course, as an "accidental."

Carol
Carol, you're absolutely slaying me. Goodness. :grin:
/Bloomfield
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