Problems with the low D -- please advise

[Drew]

Hi--

I have a Susato Low D (Dublin model) with which I'm having a very, very difficult time getting or keeping the lowest note D on. I thought that if I just keep trying and experimenting the right "feel" would come, but now I'm beginning to wonder. I can actually get the note, but it must be played so softly as to be ridiculous, and even then the octave overtone is blatantly trying to take over. Also, when it does sh*t up to the octave, it often stays there, and no reduction of breath or change in umbutuer (sp?) will help--I mean, I can literally blow just short of silence and I still get the high note.

This is a production whistle, of course. So is this a problem with the Susato mouthpiece? Anything I can do? If the problem is with me, I am very discouraged, because dealing with the issue at this high level of effort and low level of predictability and volume is not enjoyable. Any thoughts?

Drew

[Scott McCallister]

It's possible you got a lemon. You might contact susato and see if they'll replace the head. I've never heard one of the dublin models live but can vouch for the kildare models. They're solid on the low end and in experienced hands as good as lots of other much more expensive whistles.

[UncleChuck]

FWIW, I have a lot of trouble with my Susato low D as well. The bell note and the E are really "touchy" and tend to over blow or just fall out all together. One of the reasons I don't sell a low D is that my instruments tend to do the same thing and I have not figured out how to fix it reliably.

-=chuck=-

[Drew]

Thanks for the responses so far. I really like the Susatos, and am considering moving up to the Kildare low D, but not if this is something that is endemic to the overall design. I'm also considering the Dixon low D.

I guess the big newbie question is: shouldn't the lowest, bass (base) note of a low whistle be reasonably attainable, at reasonable breath pressure, or is this something that I'm troubled with due to inexperience? It doesn't seem so--there's only so many ways you can blow into a whistle and I've paid some dues so far. I'm going into Zen mode, trying to get the low note, but it's so difficult and unpredictable that I'm wondering if it's just the whistle or if low-whistling is not for me. I'll consider another make/model, but these tubes ain't cheap.

Cheers and thanks,

Drew

[benhall.1]

When I first tried a low D whistle (not a Susato) I couldn't get the low D ("bellnote") for love nor money. But I found that the main problem was not breath control. It was that, although I could have sworn I was, I wasn't in fact sealing every hole. Once I got my fingers sorted out, I found that I was able to blow a low D note very reliably, and even push the tone on it, to get it almost as loud as the upper octave notes.

Can you get your whistle played by someone who is already an experienced low whistler to check if there really is a problem with the whistle itself?

[Hotblack]

When I first tried a low D whistle (not a Susato) I couldn't get the low D ("bellnote") for love nor money. But I found that the main problem was not breath control. It was that, although I could have sworn I was, I wasn't in fact sealing every hole.

Ditto. And it wasn't B3, it was B2 that was causing the problems.

[chas]

My experience is that both Susato and Dixon low whistles have weak bell notes, and you'll never get them to honk in the lower range. If that's what you want, you should save up for an Overton, Burke, or other high-end low whistle. OTOH, with some practice you can get a little more out of the lower range, and make the music flow into it. It can also teach you a little discipline in your playing and breath control.

To reinforce what Hotblack said, the B2 hole in Susato low whistles is unusual and can be a real problem to seal. That may be part of your problem.

[Hotblack]

I ought to point out that I was playing a Dixon, not Susato, but I had the same problem with B2 on other low D whistles also, until I developed my grip.

[Feadoggie]

I played a Susato low D as my primary low D for about five years. I'd submit that it's not your "umbutuer" or the mouthpiece causing the issue. I'd also guess that the problem has to do with sealing the holes properly and the I'd also agree that the BH2 hole is the likely culprit (but it could be others). I'd played/owned a few low Ds before I got the Susato so I thought I knew what I was doing. I also had Susato Kildares in keys from high E down to the low D. So I was assured that they are solid whistles. The BH2 holes on medium and large bore Susatos are frequently elongated and it takes some practice to seal them with normal sized fingers even using piper's grip. But once you get the hang of it you should be able to push the bottom D a bit without it breaking into the second octave. I did not find the bottom notes weak after I got the grip technique sorted out. And that did take a while but I found the Susato low D to be a rerwarding whistle after that.

So how to attack the problem? First, are you using the piper's grip? If not I'd suggest you try that first. I don't know how anyone can play a Susato low D without using the piper's grip. Have you played any other low whistles? Sometimes it works for players to get used to piper's grip on say a low G or low F. Then it's back to basics. Relax, relax, relax! "Zen mode" is good! Practice sounding the notes in the first octave from C# to B to A to G slowly and getting a good tone. Then proceed to F# E and then the low D. Play the scale down as far as you can while getting a long solid note. Practice a little and take a long break. Then do it all over again. It may take some time but it will come to you. I'd encourage you to stick with it.

Feadoggie

[JTC111]

FWIW, I have a lot of trouble with my Susato low D as well. The bell note and the E are really "touchy" and tend to over blow or just fall out all together. One of the reasons I don't sell a low D is that my instruments tend to do the same thing and I have not figured out how to fix it reliably.

-=chuck=-

I'm confused, Chuck. The Bb I bought from you doesn't have that issue at all. I can go pretty loud with the bell note without it breaking. Were you making reference to low whistles you've attempted to make rather than all your whistles?

[hoopy mike]

My experience is that both Susato and Dixon low whistles have weak bell notes..

I can get a lovely bell note on my Dixon polymer low D, but if I haven't played for a while it takes time to come back to it. I think part of it (assuming that you have got all the holes covered) is being able to think/concetualise the note.

I guess you've tried going down the scale slowly...

As a last resort, try taping over all the holes, get a D in your head and try and gently teach the whistle to play in tune with the note inside of you.

[chas]

My experience is that both Susato and Dixon low whistles have weak bell notes..

I can get a lovely bell note on my Dixon polymer low D, but if I haven't played for a while it takes time to come back to it. I think part of it (assuming that you have got all the holes covered) is being able to think/concetualise the note.

I guess you've tried going down the scale slowly...

As a last resort, try taping over all the holes, get a D in your head and try and gently teach the whistle to play in tune with the note inside of you.

I'm not saying I can't get a lovely in-tune bell note, just not a LOUD one.

Have you compared a Susato or Dixon low-D side-by-side with a Burke or Overton? For me, the Susato had about the same volume as the Burke on the A or G note, but broke into the upper octave at much lower volume on the E or D. This is whether concentrating on long tones or playing at pace on a jig or reel, and I did do all the checks that the holes were properly covered. There is more variation among Dixons than among Susatos, and I've only played a few Dixons, possibly all from the same batch, so your experience may be different from mine.

[tucson_whistler]

i posted something very similar to this a long time ago (can't find it now); it was the B2 tonehole that was killing me as well. i still can't play the Susato low D reliably, but i have both the Burke Viper and an Alba low D and neither one of them give me near as much trouble--the B2 tonehole on the Susato is enormous, especially when compared to the size of the B2 tonehole for the Alba (it has the smallest toneholes of any low D i've tried).

(for some reason i can't figure out, the Burke also doesn't give me nearly as much trouble, even though it has a decent-sized B2 tonehole as well. a tiny bit smaller than the Susato, maybe that makes all the difference?)

anyway, i've seen people pay Susatos with nary a squeak, but i think i'm just going to stick with the Burke...

(if you prefer plastic low Ds, you might try Tommy's...)

cheers,
eric

[hoopy mike]

I'm not saying I can't get a lovely in-tune bell note, just not a LOUD one.

Ok, let me clarify. I can get a lovely LOUD in-tune bell note on my Dixon polymer low D.

Have you compared a Susato or Dixon low-D side-by-side with a Burke or Overton?

Nope. I don't have that sort of money to throw around or access to friends with those whistles. I think that sticking to a few whistles and getting to know how to get a good (LOUD if you wish) tone out of them is more worthwhile than whistle-hopping.

[mickey66]

Has anybody tried the Jubilee Instruments? They make a PVC Low D Whistle for $30 plus shipping if anyone has played one of these I would really like to hear some feedback. They are made in Ohio by a maker named Bingamon.