Redwood vs Ebony Wood for Woodwind Instrument

[KCJiang]

I appreciate if any one on the board could tell me the pros and cons of woodwind instruments made of redwood vs ebony wood.

Thanks,

[Doug_Tipple]

Redwood makes nice siding for houses, if you can afford it. Also, Native American flutes can be successfully made from Redwood, where a soft tone is good. Redwood, however, is too soft for most woodwind instruments, where a hard, dense wood is desirable.

[Feadoggie]

I appreciate if any one on the board could tell me the pros and cons of woodwind instruments made of redwood vs ebony wood.

One thing you may run into using the names redwood and ebony is that there are many timbers that go by those names. Redwood is a common name for timber from many parts of the world that has a reddish color. But I would assume you are referring to the redwood from your home area along the California coast. As Doug stated redwood is a softwood and is generally not considered a first choice for woodwinds, the NAF being an exception where it is frequently used in place of cedar. Mack Hoover has made a few whistles from redwood as I recall. Here's one picture I found in an old post by IDAwHOa

Redwood is somewhat more stable dimensionally than many softwoods. Redwood could also be "stabilized" further with chemical processes which would essentially make it a composite of wood and plastic. Redwood is an easy wood to work with being comparitively soft and straight grained. It is very beautiful IMO especially when the wood has some curl or flame character in the grain. While it doesn't have a lot of oils or resins in the timber it is somewhat naturally resistant to moisture and rot. That's probably why it is widely used as siding and decking. I can vouch for its durability in making furniture and lightweight boats. It is used for soundboards by some guitar builders in place of spruce or cedar. One downfall might be its strength or lack thereof relative to harder more dense woods. I wouldn't think a thin walled redwood instrument would be nearly as crush resistant as a blackwood or mopane instrument of the same dimensions. Also if the instrument incorporates a blowing edge, like a flute or whistle might have, redwood may prove fragile for holding that edge over time. On a NAF the fetish can protect that edge. Or another material could be incorporated for that part of the instrument having the blowing edge just as Mack Hoover did in the whistle shown above.

Ebonies vary by species. Just as redwood can refer to timber with a red color the name ebony can be used to refer to wood with a black color. These timbers are not the same. Ebonies are generally hard and dense. Fingerboards on better guitar and violins have been made from ebony for centuries. Gabbon, Macassar, Ceylon, Mun and Madagascar ebonies are commonly available varieties of timber. It doesn't have to be black. Due to over use much of what I see available today is frequently brown and can have cream colored stripes as well (at least at my local supplier). Ebony would generally be considered a more suitable material for a woodwind than redwood. Ebony has been used widely for making wind instruments such as recorders. Moeck has made recorders from both grenadilla and ebony over my lifetime apparently with equally good results. Ebony does have a reputation for cracking when being turned especially compared to African Blackwood (grenadilla). I'm not sure what variety it is that earned or deserves that reputation though. Macassar ebony may be one of the better varieties available these days. Guitar builders like it. Glenn Schultz made a few Macassar ebony whistles I think. I have some ebony sitting on the shelf to make parts for guitars but I have not purchased any ebony turning stock for flute or whistle making since African Blackwood is available.

Just some thoughts of my own. I'm sure others will offer their experience too.

For what sort of woodwind might you be considering these woods?

Feadoggie

[kkrell]

I hope we're not getting confused over redwood vs. rosewood.

[Feadoggie]

I hope we're not getting confused over redwood vs. rosewood.

You are so very right! That's why I mentioned that redwood can refer to many types of wood, rosewood included. And yes, there are many rosewoods as well.

Feadoggie

[dwest]

Carpenter bees love redwood, Sequoia sempervirens you'll end up with more holes than you wanted, they don't know when to stop.

[brewerpaul]

"regular" black ebony is indeed prone to cracking, especially when turned into thin walled tubes like a whistle. However, some of the other ebonies (eg Mun, Black and White) make very fine whistles indeed.

I think that Redwood as used in yard furniture and siding would be much too soft for a good whistle. If you want a red color, there are Redheart and Bloodwood. Both are quite hard and make excellent whistles-- I personally like Bloodwood better.

[KCJiang]

Thanks all of you for the valuable information. "Redwood, however, is too soft for most woodwind instruments" or "soft tone" means the sound of the wood instrument made of redwood is not reasonable loud?

[chas]

Thanks all of you for the valuable information. "Redwood, however, is too soft for most woodwind instruments" or "soft tone" means the sound of the wood instrument made of redwood is not reasonable loud?

Too soft means that the wood is too soft to make a good, durable whistle blade or flute blowedge. The harder (and tighter grained) a wood is, the easier it is to work it accurately, and the more durable and reliable the result will be. Notice that in the picture above of the Hoover redwood whistle, the mouthpiece is made from polymer. This setup works fine (I owned one of these), but I'm not sure it would work well with the mouthpiece made from redwood.

The Native American flute works differently from the whistle, recorder, or transverse flute (the sound is conveyed from the mouthpiece to blowhole by a narrow, adjustable wooden channel above the flute surface), and the expected result is very different (very soft and mellow). Redwood and cedar, both softwoods, are the woods of choice for these flutes because they're the right tools for this particular job. But if you want to make a whistle with a wooden blowedge or a transverse flute, you're much better off with a dense hardwood.

[brewerpaul]

Right-- that edge can be quite thin and not very durable if the wood isn't hard. For some of the softer woods that I use (soft being a relative term) such as Maple I usually coat that blade and it's thin edge with some water-thin cyanoacrylate glue, inside and out. This strengthens it considerably.

[KCJiang]

Thanks again!

How about using the sandalwood for woodwind instrument? I know some oriental woodwind instruments using the sandalwood. What are the pros and cons using the sandalwood?

[dwest]

Thanks again!

How about using the sandalwood for woodwind instrument? I know some oriental woodwind instruments using the sandalwood. What are the pros and cons using the sandalwood?

Which genus and species? Santalum album is a fine carving wood when it is old enough. I would think it could be used for whistles.

[Feadoggie]

Once again sandalwood is a generic name usually applied to woods with a lasting fragrance from which oils can be extracted for perfuming and similar uses. Many of these are basically weed trees. There are sandalwoods coming from just about every continent. Sorry, Antartica doesn't have a sandalwood. Some would be more appropriate than others. Since all of the sandalwoods I am familiar with are oily, there is always the risk of an allergic reaction. Check that possibility out first, I'd say. I know of Indian, African, Australian and South American types of sandalwood. There are probably multiple types from South Asia too. The African variety is also called tamboti or tambooti and it would be a decent, affordable wood for whistles, IMO. Tamboti is on my list of woods to try out but I have not used it yet. The South American type is known also as Quina. It is a softwood balsam which I wouldn't think of as a good timber for wind instruments but I don't know what instrument you are talking about. Indian sandalwood (santalum album is the common one) is probably too soft and the few pieces I have seen developed cracks(carved boxes). This wood is frequently pulvarized to make incense. It would be a good choice if you want to go all Jimi Hendrix after a performance and set your instrument on fire. I'd like to hear if any instrument makers in the States have used it. I have no experience with the Australian sandalwood, so I can't speak to it. It seems to me there is also a Hawaiian sandalwood as well.

What kind of instrument are you talking about?

Feadoggie

[Byll]

Among the whistles that my daughter plays regularly, is a Hoover Redwood instrument, with a polymer mouthpiece. It is highly lacquered, and is an experimental instrument, from a number of years ago. The walls of this feather-weight whistle are so thin, as to be a bit disconcerting, if one considers the possibility of cracking. To this point, it is intact. The sound of the whistle is very gentle and mellow. Nothing sounds quite like it...

Best to all.
Byll