5 Tunes you Hate

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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by jemtheflute »

Julia Delaney wrote:Remember when we came to tunes with a beginner's mind, with an attitude of openness, eagerness, and a lack of preconceptions about what was good or not, and with no idea about what we liked or didn't,
Well, I can just about remember things about my early stages as a player of trad music :waah: .... and there were always things that grabbed my ear and enthusiasm and others that I was indifferent to or even put off by, from both aural and written sources. But then, I was a seasoned listener to music and definitely had ideas about what I liked or didn't and why, though not a closed mind.
Julia Delaney wrote:and every tune seemed possible and filled with magic?
No, afraid I never really had that (broad an) experience - maybe wish I had..... Some tunes, yes.
Julia Delaney wrote:Remember the first time that we tried to play a hard tune, one that didn't make sense, that we did not like? And then we did play it, after fumbling around, and we found something lovely about it? That sense of discovery?
Now that I do relate to and you put it well.
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by I.D.10-t »

I must say that I feel a certain resentment towards the tune "Ashokan Farewell". With all of the tunes that were in period for the civil war a tune written over 100 years later gets to be the star of the soundtrack to a PBS documentary on the American civil war.
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Thanks for the links jemtheflute. Should have thought of the Fiddler's companion. I must admit that my eyes started to glaze over halfway through the comment's section of The Session. I had read the blurb about Davey Arthur, but thought the tune would have been older.
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by MTGuru »

Julia Delaney wrote:Remember the first time that we tried to play a hard tune, one that didn't make sense, that we did not like? And then we did play it, after fumbling around, and we found something lovely about it? That sense of discovery?
This is a good lead-in to an anecdote I was going to add to this thread, which relates to both the thread topic and, incidentally, to Krassen-O'Neill's.

When I first started playing this music, on several occasions my playing partner and I would sit down with our copy of the book and simply sight-read through page after page of tunes, trawling for new tunes to add to our repertoire. Neither of us had much much grounding in Irish trad then, as we played mostly British and American folk.

We'd pencil-mark tunes we liked, and those that left us cold. And there were FAR more of the latter than the former. It seemed we'd go for pages before finding one that struck our fancy. It was actually a bit shocking. How could this supposed "bible" of ITM contain so many awful stinkers?

Of course, now I can look at our pencilled notations and laugh. Many of the tunes we marked as complete dogs are among the best, most iconic tunes in the Irish repertoire. My judgment back then said far more about my own ignorance than about the quality of the tunes themselves.

There will always be tunes you don't like and disagreements of taste. Something like Tam Lin is hardly a melodic masterpiece. It's more like a minute-long rhythmic riff or rant and can be very effective as such, especially for listeners. But in another frame of mind, it's a simply god-awful ornament and arpeggio exercise masquerading as a tune. :-)

Anyway, I think the personal lesson I learned is not to be always so quick to judge. Maybe it's my own failure of imagination, but there are tunes I've written off until I heard someone else's playing of it, and suddenly: Aha! Now I get it. Or you sit down to work out your own, crafted setting of a tune and realize that there's gold to be mined by giving it its fair due.
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by Cathy Wilde »

MTGuru wrote:
Julia Delaney wrote:Remember the first time that we tried to play a hard tune, one that didn't make sense, that we did not like? And then we did play it, after fumbling around, and we found something lovely about it? That sense of discovery?
This is a good lead-in to an anecdote I was going to add to this thread, which relates to both the thread topic and, incidentally, to Krassen-O'Neill's.

When I first started playing this music, on several occasions my playing partner and I would sit down with our copy of the book and simply sight-read through page after page of tunes, trawling for new tunes to add to our repertoire. Neither of us had much much grounding in Irish trad then, as we played mostly British and American folk.

We'd pencil-mark tunes we liked, and those that left us cold. And there were FAR more of the latter than the former. It seemed we'd go for pages before finding one that struck our fancy. It was actually a bit shocking. How could this supposed "bible" of ITM contain so many awful stinkers?

Of course, now I can look at our pencilled notations and laugh. Many of the tunes we marked as complete dogs are among the best, most iconic tunes in the Irish repertoire. My judgment back then said far more about my own ignorance than about the quality of the tunes themselves.

There will always be tunes you don't like and disagreements of taste. Something like Tam Lin is hardly a melodic masterpiece. It's more like a minute-long rhythmic riff or rant and can be very effective as such, especially for listeners. But in another frame of mind, it's a simply god-awful ornament and arpeggio exercise masquerading as a tune. :-)

Anyway, I think the personal lesson I learned is not to be always so quick to judge. Maybe it's my own failure of imagination, but there are tunes I've written off until I heard someone else's playing of it, and suddenly: Aha! Now I get it. Or you sit down to work out your own, crafted setting of a tune and realize that there's gold to be mined by giving it its fair due.
:thumbsup:
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by Cathy Wilde »

rama wrote:tunes played by me which i dislike:
1. tunes played too fast "rushed" or "blurry"
2. tunes played played technically and viod of feeling
3. tunes played w/ too much variant, so it's practically unrecognizable
4. tunes played w/ no beat - rhythm is flatlined
5. tunes played w/ no melodic expression
:thumbsup:

To this I will add "Tunes that are played without music."
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by jemtheflute »

Brilliant post, Mr Guru, sir! Much in that I recognise in my own experience..... (especially running through books and marking tunes that seem at the time to have appeal/potential, etc. and the bit about hearing a revelatory rendition of a tune that previously seemed a dog....) I second Cathy's :thumbsup:.
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by benhall.1 »

Oh ... OK ... me too ...

:thumbsup:


I have some anecdotes of my own, concerning specific tunes, but no time ...
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by crookedtune »

'Off She Goes' is one that always felt kind of dumb when I was learning it. I heard it played well by a top player, and that changed my mind. And now, when I play it, it sounds.......dumb.
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by Akiba »

crookedtune wrote:'Off She Goes' is one that always felt kind of dumb when I was learning it. I heard it played well by a top player, and that changed my mind. And now, when I play it, it sounds.......dumb.
I've had a similar experience with Si Beg Si Mor--sounds great, even cool, on a recording I have, not so great/not so cool when I play it. Oh well, keep practicing...
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by JSCWhistler »

I'll have to agree about Glasgow aka Tam Lin... Although, given the right players, I might like it a lot more. One tune I really can't stand, though would have to be Catharsis. That obvious, terribly predictable syncopated walk-down in the B part makes me cringe!
And I'm a huge fan of Flook and odd syncopated neo-trad stuff, but I just hate that tune....
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by Ceili_whistle_man »

I can't think of any tunes that I 'hate', I play tunes that I 'prefer' over other tunes.
Having said that, 'Drowsy Maggie' is a tune that I find that I will sit out from when it is played. No problems with the tune (apart from it being done to death), it's just that from my experience (looks around to make sure there are no fiddle players with sharp imlements nearby) it is nearly always started by a fiddle player who just hoes into it at breakneck speed. Nothing wrong with speed, but there is a point with all tunes that when it (optimum speed) is reached then passed, the tune dies. What is it with fiddle players and DM? Even when a player other than fiddle starts it, the speed picks up and it becomes a headlong rush to see who can get to the end of the tune first.
Just thought of this.....Drowsy Maggie is the fiddle players 'Davy Nick-Nack'. :lol:
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by pmcallis »

One of the tunes that I dislike, among others, because of its repetitive structure is the Foxhunter's reel - four bars repeated instead of the usual eight bars repeated. While most Irish music does repeat the theme developed in its "A" part at the end of the "B" part, I find the Foxhunter's particularly boring. I'm not saying that I dislike every tune that uses this structure. For example, the Foxhunter's Jig (slip jig) has enough melodic variation to overcome its repetitve nature as does the Red Admiral Butterfly.
...Well, I guess I'll head to my "foxhole" and take cover... :D
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by benhall.1 »

Ceili_whistle_man, I think you're right about Drowsy Maggie, which, btw, I think is a fine tune. But I think that the reason it speeds up as it so often does is because it's quite a hard tune, and not an awful lot of people can play it properly. Unfortunately, they think they can. Typically, they have no idea that they're speeding up and, in the process, as well as being the cause, messing up the rhythm.
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by david_h »

Drowsy Maggie - Matt Molloy on Heathery Breeze - 80 bpm (ish) - Wonderful
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Re: 5 Tunes you Hate

Post by Ceili_whistle_man »

Ben, I agree, Drowsy Maggie is a good tune, but often ruined. I have been lucky enough to have been playing with folk who have played it just right, and when done correctly (that's subjective, I know) it really sounds fantastic.
The times I have heard it done justice is when there has been a session lead out player who has been able to hold the tempo at a good clip without letting it descend into the usual sprint finish.
I was at a session last year where a flute player was sat amongst four fiddle players. The flute player was leading out, and a couple of times he had to stomp hard on the beat to bring the fiddle players back onto speed, they were tending to speed up but he would not let it get away from him, and a couple of the fiddle players actually stopped and joined back in at the right spot.
Not being picky on fiddle players, it could have been any instrument doing this, but it happened to be fiddles at the time.
I think the key is for the folk playing to stay at the lead out players speed, then maybe we wouldn't have the 'tunes I hate' debate.
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