Death of a website (WhistleThis)

[eddieV3]

Hi all

What has happened to the Whistlethis website? All the forums have been bombarded with s%!t. No one seem's to upload tunes anymore either.Did anyone hear use that site?


Cheers

[MTGuru]

Sure ... I was/am one of the WhistleThis mentors.

WhistleThis was essentially a one-man pet project by the owner, Rob Wiltbank (Wynder). He became interested in the whistle, and the site was a way for him to explore tunes that he personally enjoyed. Then other life experiences got in his way - change of job, change of interests, demands on his time. And that was that. Rob is nice enough to keep paying for the site to preserve what was there as a legacy resource.

I've talked to him about reviving it under the auspices of the mentors (myself, kilfarboy, eskin). But we all have our own demands and limits on our time.

Besides, we're not sure if it's ultimately very useful to the people most interested in participating: beginning whistlers. Listening to umpteen versions of badly-played tunes is dubious at best, and harmful at worst. Not to mention getting feedback from umpteen people who may or may not have a clue what they're talking about.

So it really comes down to the mentors and mentor feedback. And then you're effectively talking about free online whistle lessons - which is unfair to the mentors as participation grows. Today there are other online lesson resources avaiable, paid (e.g. Blayne Chastain, OAIM, Jules Bitter) and free (Ryan Duns, TradLessons). And it's still far better to work face-to-face with a real live teacher or mentor.

If I have time, I'll try to get into the WhistleThis forums and clean out the junk. And I'll let everyone here know if there are any new developments.

Of course, as far as I know, you can still upload your clips of the target tunes there, and take your chances on whatever feedback you get.

[eddieV3]

Hi MTguru

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. It's a shame really as it look's like it used to be a popular website, Oh well.

Cheers

[benhall.1]

I think it really was very useful. I think there's loads to learn, even from the worst played beginner versions of tunes, and feedback, from anyone, is very valuable, provided always that you apply the correct intellectual filters.

It's a shame it's not still running.

[Infernaltootler]

I used it a lot when I started although I didn't upload anything or join in the forum.

As a person interested in websites I would have thought it could have been quite a successful site in terms of google ads and maybe an affiliate scheme to amazon.

It was good to listen to other people's efforts and basically fell better about your own playing.

I'm sorry, in my naivety I never thought of it as free lessons, so apologies for that.

[fearfaoin]

You wouldn't believe some of the crap the
mentors took on the forums for daring to be
called mentors. The politics of that could've
gotten pretty nasty eventually.

[TC]

As a beginner I found that site very useful. One critique of the site that came up often was that there wasn't much real advice given. Most comments seemed to be, good job, well done etc. Luckily that wasn't my experience. I learned my first few tunes there and was naive enough to post some very early versions. A few folks gave me some great advice such as you may want to breathe here or there, work on your phrasing, maybe think about some ornamentaion or the best feedback I've ever been given: listen to such and such for some examples. This did give me enough of a boost to keep at it, however I did find as I progressed, that I could pick up the tunes I needed in their proper settings by sitting in and eventually playing at my local session.

[eskin]

It was fun while it lasted, but succumbed to the same issues that challenge nearly every Internet resource related to IRTrad.

[Dale]

It was fun while it lasted, but succumbed to the same issues that challenge nearly every Internet resource related to IRTrad.

Yeah. Tell us about it.

[crookedtune]

Better fraught than succumbed, I suppose.

[TomJohn]

It was fun while it lasted, but succumbed to the same issues that challenge nearly every Internet resource related to IRTrad.

Hey Eskin,

Have you used many internet resources for learning in the past? Would be great to hear your thoughts on why you think many of them succumb after a while... the issues etc. We're trying to do things a bit differently on OAIM so would be great to hear any suggestions etc.

Thanks,

TomJohn

[Mack.Hoover]

It was fun while it lasted, but succumbed to the same issues that challenge nearly every Internet resource related to IRTrad.

Well put!

Mack

[straycat82]

From a tuition perspective, Whistle This was a site that was put up by someone who was not in a place to be giving advice to other players. The fact that the site was also a free-for-all (meaning that anyone could comment and give "advice") didn't help either. Not that I'm trying to put down what Wynder did, it was very nice of him to administrate everything at no charge to us but the whole structure of the thing was not on that I feel would ever had led to bettering anyone's skills significantly. Putting the Mentor program in place was a step in the right direction but the structure was still messy and likely confusing to many in terms of what critique was worth taking and not. The inexperienced end up regurgitating the critiques they received and sometimes not in the proper context.

The other aspect of it is that with this free-for-all approach to critiquing/learning, the "niceness" get's in the way. It becomes in some ways a program for pats on the back and "good job" comments which do nothing to help the would-be learner. While there is a place for encouragement, when you have a group of amateurs walking around and patting each other on the back it really just becomes a feel good place and doesn't, in my opinion, lead to much improvement. People become used to being told their clips aren't too bad and then when a real honest critique comes along, it stings a bit. Players spend time putting together their best effort of a recording, splicing out mistakes, smoothing everything over with reverb and post-effects and the self-foolery continues on. Egos get built up and you have people giving advice who shouldn't be and thinking they're doing pretty darn good themselves.

It just becomes a big pointless exercise. Meanwhile the mentors are working hard, the site host is putting in hours and cash to keep it up and their efforts end up in vain. It was a noble pursuit and a bit of fun at first but I am not at all surprised that it fell apart... and wouldn't be surprised to see the same of any similar site. The folks who really do have the music are likely out playing the music and not setting up websites. It seems like it's usually the beginner to intermediate crowds who are inclined to build stuff like this.

[eskin]

From a tuition perspective, Whistle This was a site that was put up by someone who was not in a place to be giving advice to other players. The fact that the site was also a free-for-all (meaning that anyone could comment and give "advice") didn't help either. Not that I'm trying to put down what Wynder did, it was very nice of him to administrate everything at no charge to us but the whole structure of the thing was not on that I feel would ever had led to bettering anyone's skills significantly. Putting the Mentor program in place was a step in the right direction but the structure was still messy and likely confusing to many in terms of what critique was worth taking and not. The inexperienced end up regurgitating the critiques they received and sometimes not in the proper context.

The other aspect of it is that with this free-for-all approach to critiquing/learning, the "niceness" get's in the way. It becomes in some ways a program for pats on the back and "good job" comments which do nothing to help the would-be learner. While there is a place for encouragement, when you have a group of amateurs walking around and patting each other on the back it really just becomes a feel good place and doesn't, in my opinion, lead to much improvement. People become used to being told their clips aren't too bad and then when a real honest critique comes along, it stings a bit. Players spend time putting together their best effort of a recording, splicing out mistakes, smoothing everything over with reverb and post-effects and the self-foolery continues on. Egos get built up and you have people giving advice who shouldn't be and thinking they're doing pretty darn good themselves.

It just becomes a big pointless exercise. Meanwhile the mentors are working hard, the site host is putting in hours and cash to keep it up and their efforts end up in vain. It was a noble pursuit and a bit of fun at first but I am not at all surprised that it fell apart... and wouldn't be surprised to see the same of any similar site. The folks who really do have the music are likely out playing the music and not setting up websites. It seems like it's usually the beginner to intermediate crowds who are inclined to build stuff like this.

That describes the end cascade that eventually brought down the site, but doesn't truly explain how it got to that point, which really was about lack of effective moderation, even amongst the mentors...

You want a successful site TomJohn? Moderate quickly and with a heavy hand when required. Far better to have a vibrant site with 20 members than a moshpit of unpleasantness with 200. Have a 100% no a$$hole policy no matter if the offender is Seamus Ennis reincarnated. Enforce civil behavior and tolerance of stylistic alternatives that fit within the general accepted practices for IRTrad. Establish mentors if that would be useful and enforce the same no a$$hole policy among the mentors themselves.

Chiff and Fipple seems to have the right balance more and more and for that I give credit to the moderators.

[Mr.Gumby]

Once you invoke the 'asshole' to describe others you're threading thin ice Michael. You may well be stepping into the same trap you're describing.