Opinion about wearing a skirt with swastikas on it

[hans]

It is a lovely skirt, Diane, and I hope you are going to wear it in public! I can't see how anyone can mistake the skirts pattern for the Hakenkreuz symbol used in Nazi Germany and by some neo-nazi parties. That symbol was a blocky black hooked cross on a white disk on red background, all with exact defined dimensions, completely different from what I see on the skirt.

[Redwolf]

I have to say, in all honesty, that if it hadn't been pointed out to me, I probably wouldn't have looked at that design and thought "swastika." As others have said, it's so different, both in color and orientation, from the Nazi symbol...and the additional design elements between the arms make it look even more different. To my eye, it looks more like a stylized square than anything else. And the skirt is so clearly an Indian design.

If it were me, I'd wear the skirt and not worry too much about it. It may just be me, but I don't think that many people are going to look at that skirt, with that design, and think "Nazi."

Redwolf

[MTGuru]

Hans, unfortunately I think you may be overestimating other people's discrimination and knowledge, especially here in politically correct California. But I guess I'd go with an empirical test before altering the design. Try wearing it out a few times, and see what happens.

[Innocent Bystander]

It is a lovely skirt, Diane, and I hope you are going to wear it in public! I can't see how anyone can mistake the skirts pattern for the Hakenkreuz symbol used in Nazi Germany and by some neo-nazi parties. That symbol was a blocky black hooked cross on a white disk on red background, all with exact defined dimensions, completely different from what I see on the skirt.

I agree.

[dwest]

I wouldn't even consider the fact that the Indian National Army had an alliance with the Nazi's during the war, and of course the Japanese. Some of those designs could taken to be Japanese, I think we could open up a real quagmire here. Some in the INA became Marxists after the war, and still are. Textile workers in India can make as much as $170.00 USD a month, a bit high I think. Some of the textiles in India are dyed with highly toxic dyes processes(for the workers) with little to no regulation or patented proprietary dyes for which they are paying no royalties. That's just some other reasons for not wearing such a skirt, but for me those aren't really my colors I'm sorta stuck between Autumn and Spring.

[mutepointe]

Here's my two cents. This in no way is a Hitler Swastika and can not be construed as such. However, there will be people who will WANT to be offended by this swastika, whether they know the truth behind this symbol or not. Some folks looking for drama wherever they can find it.

[emmline]

Here's my two cents. This in no way is a Hitler Swastika and can not be construed as such. However, there will be people who will WANT to be offended by this swastika, whether they know the truth behind this symbol or not. Some folks looking for drama wherever they can find it.

Make it 4¢.

[brewerpaul]

As a Jew who undoubtedly lost family members during the holocaust, I have to say that your skirt does not offend me in the least, now that I see it. This is clearly a folk design, nothing more and is quite pretty. I'd say wear it.

BTW-- In the main post office in Troy NY, built in the '30s, there is a pattern in the decorative stone work which includes a very swastika-like pattern. I haven't heard anyone suggest altering that design.

[Dain]

I'd say it's the question of the political correctness really. In the swastika case, the time gap is still too small, i.e. there is still a lot of people that would be offended, annoyed or merely jolted by the sight of it.
I, myself, would get seriously annoyed if i'd saw it on a t-shirt of a skinhead, because i'd knew what does it stand for.
On the other side, if i'd saw it on a sarong-type skirt of a female whistler, i would be jolted, but nothing more.

It's the scope, really.

But we should never forget what the swastika stood for.
Or cross, or crescent moon, or David's star.

[Doug_Tipple]

This thread reminds me a little bit of a Quaker business meeting. The Quakers, a religious sect that came to the colonies early because of persecution in Europe, had the rather strange practice of requiring unanimity before going forth with a decision for the meeting, the group as a whole. As we all know, unanimity is pretty hard to get when you have a large group of people. Seemingly, there is always someone who has a different opinion. That may be the reason that the Quaker faith has never really attracted a large numbers of followers, compared to other Christian religions in the USA. With regard to wearing a skirt with a swastikas on it, we can see that there is a clear difference of opinion. Requiring a unanimous agreement almost guarantees gridlock when it comes to difficult issues. Being able to accept the principal of "majority rule" seems a more practical solution to me. So, I will call in our polster, Mutepoint, to settle this matter once and for all. I often wanted to shout out in Quaker Meeting, "Let's vote", but, of course, I never did.

[HDSarah]

The Hindu swastika symbolizes, among other things, that we cannot approach Truth (or God, or whatever capitalized Idea you wish to put here) directly. The path is crooked, but all paths lead to the center.

I, too, am sad that the swastika design was co-opted by the Nazis and wish it could return to its pre-Nazi significance, but I don't think that's possible. Personally, I would err on the side of caution and alter the design a little before wearing the skirt out where strangers might see it. Presumably, friends who misunderstood would say something and you could have your "teachable moment," but strangers might be silently though deeply offended. I'd hate to unknowingly hurt someone whose relatives were murdered by the Nazis.

[hans]

@ Doug: sometimes reaching consensus is essential. And aiming for it is certainly a good practise, IMO. I find nothing strange about it. The practise of reaching decisions by vote could be seen to be much stranger. It requires you to be able and willing to act against a judgement you made, in order to comply with a majority decision. That is not necessary if consensus was reached.

Here is a good collection of photos from around the world depicting swastikas either as part of patterns or religious symbols, all without Nazi ideology:
http://www.flickriver.com/groups/120789 ... teresting/

I think it is important to step beyond the negative associations to the symbol brought by the Nazis and still continued by Neo Nazis today. Banning display of swastikas would be a step backwards. Rather embrace their positive meaning.

[Hotblack]

It is a lovely skirt, Diane, and I hope you are going to wear it in public! I can't see how anyone can mistake the skirts pattern for the Hakenkreuz symbol used in Nazi Germany and by some neo-nazi parties. That symbol was a blocky black hooked cross on a white disk on red background, all with exact defined dimensions, completely different from what I see on the skirt.

I agree.

So do I

[Hotblack]

I think it is important to step beyond the negative associations to the symbol brought by the Nazis and still continued by Neo Nazis today. Banning display of swastikas would be a step backwards. Rather embrace their positive meaning.

I agree with Hans yet again.

There was a time when the Union Jack (or Union Flag to give it its correct title) was being co-opted by skinheads and fascists in this country. The BNP (British National Party) are still trying to make it a jingoistic symbol. Fortunately enough Brits use it in other contexts that it is basically being saved as a symbol of the country and not for racism.

To wear a skirt which has a run of swastikas down the fringe that clearly do not look like the Nazi symbol should give the wearer no cause for concern. I bet most people wouldn't notice unless it was pointed out to them anyway.

[dwest]

I sometimes wonder if this anti-swastika sentiment is a ploy to deflect attention from the very real "missteps" of the Allies towards the end of the war. Including injustices that were allowed to go to the grave unanswered as recently as just a few years ago. But enough "yakking." BTW yak hair is very good for weaving, which frequently involves swastikas, the new rush chair I wove this past weekend has a swastika pattern.