Rudallesque flutes and sessions

[jim stone]

I'm playing in a session, at last. Also I am increasingly in love with the Byrne flute.
I note that the nicholson is more readily heard. We're in a pub and it's pretty noisy.
I know, of course, that a more
skilled player than myself can make a rudall (or a curtain rod) heard and I wonder what
people's experiences are playing rudalls in sessions.

[Elvellon]

At lest with the flute you hear yourself a lot better than with the whistle, and that's what matters to me.

[benhall.1]

I don't know about modern flutes, but original Rudalls can be almost overpowering. Which is what you want, 'cos then you can play 'em quieter if you want as well.

[JohnB]

I think for session beginners it's probably better if they're not heard above the other instruments especially with a flute where it's all to easy to play out of tune

[Gabriel]

I have no problems playing Rudalls at sessions. Switched from a Pratten more or less recently and got even louder, or more projecting, on the Rudall. Most people try to play Rudalls like Prattens if they played them (Prattens) on sessions before, which won't work. They require a different approach.

[ancientfifer]

I have no problems playing Rudalls at sessions. Switched from a Pratten more or less recently and got even louder, or more projecting, on the Rudall. Most people try to play Rudalls like Prattens if they played them (Prattens) on sessions before, which won't work. They require a different approach.

Thanks for that perspective. I have been dying to try a Rudall styled flute at a session and have been contemplating "switching" for awhile. I now play a Pratten style, blackwood, unlined head, and find that in louder sessions, the harder I blow to try and hear myself, the quieter it gets, and the low end washes out. Otherwise, when playing solo, or in a quiet venue, I do like much about the Pratten style. I agree with your description of the "projection" of a Rudall, and it seems to me that in sessions they don't require the player to overwork themselves trying to be heard.
Russ

[jim stone]

What's the different approach Rudalls require?

[Gabriel]

I'm afraid I can't really describe it. It's something one has to grow into. When playing Prattens now, after a few months of intensive Rudall playing, I experience them as very demanding flutes regarding breath requirements and the more air I put into them, the louder they get...but there is no "barrier" that tells me I've got the optimal breath pressure level for big projection. They just get louder and eventually break down, like Russ/fifenwhistle described.

I think one has to distinguish between earlier and later Rudalls as well here. Late RRC/RC flutes tend to have very big bores quite resembling the average Pratten bore, bust with a few flares here and there, while earlier Rudalls tend to have narrower bores with tapers more steep. The flute I currently play has a rather narrow bore, which, to my experience and widely independent from the type of embouchure hole (have tried a few), leads to more "resistance" while playing, i.e. you get a kind of feedback from the flute which tells you how much pressure it can take. I guess (but don't know) that this resistance builds up due to the taper rate, the steeper it gets, the more resistance you have because the resonating air is compressed somehow...I'm not a physicist, so that might be wrong.

One also might have to distinguish between the type of player who tends to drive his/her flute at very high/the highest possible breath pressure levels, and the player who maintains a constant pressure level that doesn't reach the flutes limit. A Pratten player who always plays with medium pressure might never notice the effect I mentioned above.

Anyway, to my experience the trick is to drive the flute at the optimal breath pressure level, which is a skill to be learned if the player comes from a Pratten flute, as these flutes don't give that kind of feedback while playing. It takes weeks or even months to adjust to, and if playing a Pratten after some months of Rudall playing, one will probably notice what I've described above, which is what I, being a absolutely convinced Pratten player, experienced. But your mileage may vary of course.

[Cathy Wilde]

My experience exactly, and I would say I've also experienced that on my Nicholson. Meanwhile ...

Bryan's flute will serve you just fine, Jim. That tone on those things can lay low an army of banjos. Try less air volume if anything. Though I second John on loud not necessarily equalling necessary. If you can hear yourself, don't worry; others can hear you plenty. If you can't hear yourself, don't worry. Others can still hear you just fine. So worry about how you're playing, and not how loud.

[Julia Delaney]

You all speak as if a Rudall is a Rudall and a Pratten is a Pratten. Different makers all have different takes on the Rudall and the Pratten designs. There is a world of difference between a Martin Doyle, Glenn Watson, and a Bryan Byrne Rudall as compared to, say, Patrick Olwell's "Rudall."
Each flute - even those from the same maker -requires a different approach from every other flute, regardless of design.

[Gabriel]

But there are tendencies.

[m31]

Are those tendencies worth investing in another $1k-5k flute?

Clips of sessions with said flutes would be nice. Not required, just nice.

[MTGuru]

Echoing John and Cathy ... Thinking you need to play louder to be heard can be a typical mistake by beginning sessioneers. When you're used to hearing yourself alone in isolation, the ambient sound and noise when playing with others makes it seem that your own contribution is being drowned out. So you play louder, or use a louder instrument ... then so does everyone else. Before long you're all in a volume death spiral playing at the top of your lungs, bows, bags etc. It's a pet peeve, and I'm sometimes guilty, too.

Jim, if your session mates are amenable, try this. Place your recording device somewhere in the pub away from the session table. Then record a set where you're the only flute playing, and check the result. You might be surprised to find how well your playing comes through with your current setup.

I've sessioned before with some of the Tucson gang (Round the House) - as has Julia Delaney above - and my impression is that they're not volume demons.

[Gabriel]

Are those tendencies worth investing in another $1k-5k flute?

You decide...I don't have 'another' flute. I have 'a' flute.

And after all it's the player who makes the music. I guess just about every flute available will make a good session flute, if it's well constructed.

[Akiba]

I just started playing a John Gallagher Rudall and am amazed at how big and cutting the sound is, particularly since it has a narrow bore and SMALL holes, almost as small as a GLP. I play at a session in a pub that has horrible acoustics, and this flute was carrying/cutting through beautifully; could hear myself no problem. A friend of mine is an Olwell pratten player and she too was taken aback at the power of this "little" flute.

I also find that Rudalls play very differently as a class of flute compared to the Pratten/hybrid style. My M&E Rudall works great with the approach I use with the Gallagher and the Murray I had, but my Burns is of a different breed entirely as is the Olwell I've been using.

Thank you, Stefen, for your description of the Rudall approach. One other question (which probably has no answer but time/practice/acceptance): I find the Rudalls have more "hiss" than other flutes--do I just need to accept it as a part of the flute or are there specific measures I can take to eliminate/reduce some of the extra air noise? I seem to hear it more prominently in recordings of Rudall players than Pratten players.

Jason