Anyone ever tried a Siccama flute for Irish trad music?

[Thalatta]

Has anyone ever tried a Siccama flute for Irish trad? I haven't, but can see the potential limits (no slides on certain notes covered with siccama keys, and difficult ornementation). Any opinions? I see too that Terry McGee makes a Siccama model flute, and I wonder for what kind of music, if Irish is difficult on it? Penny whistle for your thoughts. Shane

[RudallRose]

Paddy Carty played a Radcliffe system.

siccama's are terrific flutes for irish music, most especially for small hands that have difficulty with the ring-finger reach. You lose the ability to "slide" notes (from D to E and from G to A) but that's little different than anyone playing a Boehm system (such as Ms. Madden) for trad.

The Siccama flutes are strong and powerful of tone, and it's no wonder. John Hudson (the original constructor for Mr. Siccama) was the maker and developer of the Pratten's Perfected flute. Again, it's no wonder since Mr. Pratten performed on the Siccama before his own model appeared and enlisted the only maker he obviously associated closely with: Mr. Hudson.

Abel Siccama got a bum rap from Mr. Rockstro, who was probably very jealous of his success. Note that the Siccama model makes the low E very strong of tone, a common problem for some simple system flutes, which oft suffered from a "choked" sound.

But then again, this is all just my own uneducated, inexperienced and personal opinion and assessment. I'd seek out THE expert on this, whomever the heck that might be today.

Hope this helps ya. I guess I just can't resist.

[Thalatta]

Thanks David! Now, now, I had nothing to do with the previous discussion!

[an seanduine]

Please keep up your contributions, David Migoya!

But then again, this is all just my own uneducated, inexperienced and personal opinion and assessment. I'd seek out THE expert on this, whomever the heck that might be today.

And good on ya for doing so!

Bob

[groxburgh]

Yes I've got one. Made by Metzler (end cap is not original.)


Works well, as David said it would be ideal for someone with small hands or old hands as the finger stretch is reduced. My daughter used it for ITM for a few years but it's now not being used and I could probably be talked into selling it ....

Cheers
Graeme

[jemtheflute]

I know a guy with a (quite early) Wilkes 8-key who had Chris make him (retrofit) a Siccama key for R3 (i.e. on a normal Rudall E-hole) because he has an arthritic problem affecting his span. It does the job just fine, with the limitations David outlined.

[Rob Sharer]

Bloody Wilkes again!


Rob

[dunnp]

I believe you can can hear some Siccama clacking on Matt Molloy's Bb flute on his earlier albums.
There is a funny passage in Ciaran Carson's Last Nights Fun book which I don't have a copy of anymore but he says
something along the lines of: about then you get a Hawkes Siccama flute that sounds like a trumpet compared to the genteel
quiet of the Barret (his first flute) until you realize the keys for the E and A don't really respond to ornmentation the way it should.
I think I'm only remembering the trumpet and the genteel quiet part correctly but fudging the rest but I did read the book enough times that I should remeber it by heart.
I think one should work well if you recognize it may have some limitations and learn to use those limitations effectively in your music.
Maybe some one with a copy of the book could find the real passage (I hope I have the right book).
Perhaps the clacky keys could be a nice effect and all of us would love to have the sound of Paddy Carty on the Radcliffe.
Patrick

[s1m0n]

Presumably, the great advantage of Siccama is that the switch from simple system/whistlefingering is seamless.

[dunnp]

I'm not positive but I would think the original design was to get the holes in the acoustically correct postion for all reaches rather than just small reaches. I would think because of the new position they would not be reachable even by large hands. The holes are still huge, so less to do with small hands and more to do with the correct positioning of the holes. There was one or is one on ebay for a reasonable buy it now. Though don't know if the mechanism is in good shape.

[Doc Jones]

Other than slides, I can't think of any ornament that would suffer.

I had occassion to play a McGee Bb Siccama that was here in the store for a while (not early long enough IMO!). It was sure nice on the hands and the "E" note was great.

I would think a Siccama would be great for IrTrad for someone that didn't want to manage the stretch of a large-hole flute.

Doc

[dunnp]

an older discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25289
and the ebay Siccama
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=siccam ... m270.l1313
but why is it listed twice or am I confused

Also didn't some very good player play an antique maybe Chappell Siccama
I thought maybe Turlach Boylan but can't find any info on his flute and a few
pictures seem to not show siccama keys on the flute.
any guesses?

[m31]

The balance point is a bit different since the there's a lot more typewriter keys. L3 and R3 get tired more easily (a and e rolls take more effort). Some may not like the single piece middle section. Spectacles take a bit of getting used to. Yes you will want to bend those notes but you can't.

But OTOH if you want a fully keyed flute, fairly powerful tone at a good price, then it is excellent value.

[benhall.1]

Bloody Wilkes again!


Rob

Yeah. Bloody Wilkes! Anyone would think he was an expert or something.

[kkrell]

Also didn't some very good player play an antique maybe Chappell Siccama
I thought maybe Turlach Boylan but can't find any info on his flute and a few
pictures seem to not show siccama keys on the flute.
any guesses?

Turlach indeed played a Chappell ebonite flute from late 19C, but I don't have any details as to the configuration.