Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

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Feadoggie
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by Feadoggie »

The wise ones have spoken. It's all about a reasonable bore-to-length ratio.
Tommy wrote:Susato makes several combo sets with up to around four or five tubes per head. I did notice they do not make the same head for a D,C as the A, G.
Susato has had a history of making one bore size for whistles from high E down to low A, about 7/16". As you might expect, the high E required too much push and was enormously loud and the low A was comparatively touchy and weak. The Kelishecks figured things out and started offering whistle keys in alternate bore sizes. D and Eb whstles are now available in the S-series as well as the V-series for example. You can still order one head and up to six bodies in different keys but they have to share the same bore size(and compromises will result).

It's tempting for a whistle maker to make a single head fitted to bodies for several keys. As Hans pointed out, the physics can work for keys a half-step apart. And it's convenient/economical for a player to buy such sets of head and bodies. Only a few makers use a different bore size for each whistle key. But that's the way to go.

As for common keys, aside from high D being most common, I think times, locale and fashion dictate what other keys will be favored. For a few years I made batches whistles in amounts according to the demand of whistles in keys from the previous year. And each year another key (of which I didn't make enough) would emerge as a popular key. Maybe a "high volume" maker has other experience.

MTGuru, thank you for using the word "tessitura". That's a word I don't hear very often these days.

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Last edited by Feadoggie on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by MTGuru »

Feadoggie wrote:MTGuru, thank you for using the word "tessitura". That's a word I don't hear very often these days.
Heh heh. :-) Yes, it's a handy shorthand term for a handy concept: the best or most usual pitch range of an instrument.

Combine that with a basic categorization of melodies as authentic (tonic on ends) or plagal (tonic in the center), and you have a very useful heuristic for matching up tunes and whistle keys.
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by cboody »

Certainly an interesting set of responses to my musings. Probably I should clarify a few things:

1) I didn't mean to imply one head and four bodies or anything like that. I'm well aware of the acoustical issues involved, and it certainly wouldn't work. What I meant, rather, was combining together a set of whistles as a single package for sale. I suspect that the posters referring to labor being the major cost of whistle making answered my question though.

2) I didn't mean to imply that those four keys (D C A G) were all that common in good solid Irish Trad session playing. MTGuru is certainly accurate when he says the bulk of that is D whistle with an occasional need for a C whistle. I tend to play in more eclectic "jams" or "sessions" or whatever you call them and they are mostly peopled with fiddles and other string instruments (and not harps) so they tend to hang around D, G, C, and A major and the related keys/modes. I've found plenty of use for the A whistle, less for the C and perhaps some use for an E, though in fact the G# can be half holed or avoided in many of the common tunes so that the D whistle works quite well.

3) The reason I've found use for the A is exactly the same as why MTGuru says he hasn't found a use for it: The tessitura of tunes. Case in point: slow airs beginning A, D E F (abc notation). I just transcribed a fine on yesterday. That is a much richer sound than going up on a D whistle, and besides if you do that you'll run off the high end later in the tune (and perhaps drive folks screaming from the room). Try "Big John McNeal" on anything but an A whistle.... A whistle is also very useful as an instrument to play countermelodies for tunes on D whistles (lo or high) because of the access it gives to that "middle" range.

4) I do see the reason for a Bb or F given the right circumstances, I just don't usually get involved in those situations. I have ordered a Bb as a hedge though (a great excuse for WHOA).

5) I've learned there are apparently enough different situations so that my original generalization was off base.

6) But I still wonder what might happen if makers who make whistles in a range of keys offered some slight discount for purchase of more that one whistle at a time... Yeah the labor cost issue but still... Maybe it is just wishful thinking.....

Interesting responses. Thanks...
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by walrii »

MTGuru wrote:
Feadoggie wrote:..."tessitura"...
...categorization...authentic...plagal...heuristic...
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by MTGuru »

walrii wrote:Where's my Funk and Wagnall's?
In a mayonnaise jar buried under your front porch. And if you get that pop culture reference, you're dating yourself. :P
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by R Small »

And now, heeeere's...
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by Tommy »

cboody wrote: and understand that in many cases you'd be buying three or even four complete whistles. But other sets reduce the per whistle cost a bit. Couldn't that be done with a set such as I describe?

Just a passing thought....
OK, I read your last post, and went back to the first one. Some of us went off thinking you were asking about a set of four tone tubes, and one head. Looks to me now that you understand that some of them were to far apart to play well. I do not see one head with four tone tubes in D, C, A, G. However two sets of one head plus D and C tone tube, and one head for an A, and G tone tube should be feasible. Or a discount on four complete whistles one head, and tone tube for each key. Myself, and several other makes would be happy to sell either set. With a discount, or no less than free shipping. :)

Just a passing offer.
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by fearfaoin »

cboody wrote:1) I didn't mean to imply one head and four bodies or anything like that. I'm well aware of the acoustical issues involved, and it certainly wouldn't work. What I meant, rather, was combining together a set of whistles as a single package for sale. I suspect that the posters referring to labor being the major cost of whistle making answered my question though.
It seems that what cboody is talking about is
4 complete whistles: 4 bodies, each with their
own head, shrinkwrapped together. Which is
not what most people refer to as a "set", thus
our collective confusion.

Is that right, cboody? If so, I doubt there'd be
a discount for that, except that you might save
on shipping if they all are shipped at the same
time.
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Brigitte
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by Brigitte »

Just wondering if you have spoken with makers about wanting to order 3 or more whistles in one go or have you recurringly ordered instruments from a maker over the years and wanting more from him/her and asked for a quote and did not get offered a discount or free shipping?

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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by MTGuru »

In case the question was lost in the mix ...
MTGuru wrote:
Mr.Gumby wrote:I don't particularly recognise my local situation in the examples given and in extension my choice of keys would be a different one.
Mr. G, now you have me curious about your choice and what aspects of your local situation explain the difference. And if by local you mean your own town, or region, or perhaps something larger.
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by brewerpaul »

I make my C,D and Eb whistles with tubing of the same ID and OD. The acoustics work out fine for the three keys, but they each need to be voiced slightly differently to perform well, so I don't offer sets. With wood, it's nice to have the head and body made from one piece of wood from a visual point of view. Finally, back to labor, once I've turned a square of wood into that thin walled tube, the largest part of the work (and riskiest) is done, so making just an extra body tube wouldn't be worth my while.
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by Mack.Hoover »

Guess I can add my two pennywhistles worth to the mix.
I thought it would be a fine idea when I started out twelve years ago. I did a one head five whistle set which I gave to my sister. Only one played worth anything, the D. It became my model for the Whitecap. Using different size plastic plumbing pipes I adapted the Whitecap to other keys, but I never was very successful with sets more than half tone apart. I'm an advocate of one mate whistle marriages. Whistle polygamy just ain't right MHOTI. I give discounts for one on one sets of different keys and postage breaks.

For what it's worth she gave me back the whole set which I've added to my rack of shame along with a lot of other failed experiments and returns. That rack includes Greyheads, Blacktops, lots of various woods and other materials and low whistles.
Still I estimate my success rate at about 95 to 1 or better. And that with basic carpenters tools by a retired carpenter. A happy one. I love all whistles! Only a limited few are profitable to make. Sets aren't. Not for me, anyway.
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Re: Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

Post by talasiga »

fearfaoin wrote: ......
I use my A whistle a ton when accompanying songs
in D, so I can go below the low D on the staff. I
thought about a set, but it's much easier to have
both the D and A whistles all tuned up and ready to
go. If I had to change whistle heads all the time, I'd
be retuning constantly.
enjoyed reading this
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