Why don't makers of sets group by common whistles

[cboody]

It seems to me that players of trad music could probably agree that D, A, C and G whistles are most useful and probably in that order. Few makers package such a set though. Quite a few package C/D sets, usually with a single head. Even fewer package G/A (lo range) sets, some with single head and some with two. But why doesn't any maker package these four common whistles together? I know about the issues of proper diameter and the need to match that to whistle key, and understand that in many cases you'd be buying three or even four complete whistles. But other sets reduce the per whistle cost a bit. Couldn't that be done with a set such as I describe?

Just a passing thought....

[benhall.1]

I wonder what keys most trad people would consider most useful. Personally, I hardly ever use anything other than a D whistle (high or low, but mainly high). Next in usefulness (for me) is a high C, and then would come an Eb. Hence (as well as the thing about interchangeable heads and bores etc) why I assumed they were packaged that way.

I've got A and G whistles somewhere, but I'm finding it hard to imagine a situation where I'd use them. Don't think I ever have ...

[MTGuru]

It seems to me that players of trad music could probably agree that D, A, C and G whistles are most useful and probably in that order.

But things are not always what they seem ...

Seriously, in my experience, the order of use and usefulness is: D, C, and ... well, actually, that's it. Maybe low D as a change of pace from high D. In 10+ years playing sessions, I've almost never seen anything but one of those three whistles at a session, except when whistle players are trading whistle pr0n, doing solos, etc.

Beyond that, the next most useful session whistle may be E, for easy fingering of those fiddly Scottish-influenced A tunes. And if you hang around with flat set pipers, you'll want to add a B and maybe C# whistle to your kit.

Apart from sessions, I think you find a lot of affection among experienced players for low F as the low whistle filling a particularly sweet spot. Eb is nice for brightening things up, and Bb for mellowing things down (both usually Gens). Bringing up the rear in last place would be A and G, though some players like Brian Finnegan and Cormac Breatnach have favored A for recording.

Which is a long-winded way of answering the question. D/C sets are popular because that's what session whistlers actually play in the real world. Beyond that, you're not going to find much consensus. Hence the lack of motivation for other pre-configured sets.

BTW ... If your thinking is that A and G whistles are good for A and G tunes, that's generally not the case, because the tessitura is wrong.

Anyway, hope that helps.

[hoopy mike]

BTW ... If your thinking is that A and G whistles are good for A and G tunes, that's generally not the case, because the tessitura is wrong.

Perhaps an A whistle has an appropriate tessitura for some tunes in D though. I wonder if people tend to sing in a lower range these days - maybe something to do with the increase in average height over the years.

[brewerpaul]

>But other sets reduce the per whistle cost a bit. Couldn't that be done with a set such as I describe?

The major cost in making whistles is labor, and offering odd sets like you describe wouldn't reduce that. In fact, it would INCREASE the labor costs since making each key of whistle using a different diameter requires changing machinery,jigs, drills, etc.

[colomon]

Seriously, in my experience, the order of use and usefulness is: D, C, and ... well, actually, that's it. Maybe low D as a change of pace from high D. In 10+ years playing sessions, I've almost never seen anything but one of those three whistles at a session, except when whistle players are trading whistle pr0n, doing solos, etc.

Beyond that, the next most useful session whistle may be E, for easy fingering of those fiddly Scottish-influenced A tunes. And if you hang around with flat set pipers, you'll want to add a B and maybe C# whistle to your kit.

Personally, I think my session whistle keys are usually D, E, and A, in that order of use. E is really handy for those fiddly tunes in A and E, not just the Scottish (influenced) but Quebecois and Old Time as well. An A whistle is nice for those keys of D or A tunes that spend a lot of time on the G string of the fiddle -- there are a few I know where it is almost essential ("Bea Maye's" and "Christina's Dream" come to mind), and more where I can play the tune on a D whistle, but it's nice to play it on the A if you have one handy.

I find that if your fiddle players have grown bored of "Julia Delany's" and haven't given in to the trend of playing D tunes in C, there's very little reason to use a C whistle.

[Mr.Gumby]

Local situations, practices and repertoires vary a good bit.

I don't particularly recognise my local situation in the examples given and in extension my choice of keys would be a different one.

I also don't particularly like the arrangement of one-head, various bodies for whistles.

[hoopy mike]

I also don't particularly like the arrangement of one-head, various bodies for whistles.

Two heads are better than one.

[hans]

The major cost in making whistles is labor, and offering odd sets like you describe wouldn't reduce that. In fact, it would INCREASE the labor costs since making each key of whistle using a different diameter requires changing machinery,jigs, drills, etc.

Exactly. It would only make sense for mass-produced factory items in order to entice customers to buy several at once, with a quantity discount.

Combo whistle sets with one head and two or more bodies in different keys make some sense, as it cuts costs and thereby price, making combos more economical than several individual whistles. But it often introduces a compromise in tonal qualities, because the same head has to serve whistles of different length with different length to bore ratios. It works best if the whistle bodies are only a semitone apart.

[fearfaoin]

I once had a Syn set with D, C, A, and Bb bodies.
The problem is, with the head tuned to sound good
with the D or C body may not do so well with the A
or Bb, and vice versa. Also, if you make an A body
with the same diameter as a D body, you will need
to make some compromises on hole placement/size
to make them work. The A might need its holes to
be farther apart than you might want or the D
might have them too close. One or more of the
bodies is sure to have a C natural crossfingering
problem. Anyway, I bet if you go all the way down
to G, you'd have some aerodynamics problems
somewhere.

I use my A whistle a ton when accompanying songs
in D, so I can go below the low D on the staff. I
thought about a set, but it's much easier to have
both the D and A whistles all tuned up and ready to
go. If I had to change whistle heads all the time, I'd
be retuning constantly.

[MTGuru]

I don't particularly recognise my local situation in the examples given and in extension my choice of keys would be a different one.

Mr. G, now you have me curious about your choice and what aspects of your local situation explain the difference. And if by local you mean your own town, or region, or perhaps something larger.

I find that if your fiddle players have grown bored of "Julia Delany's" and haven't given in to the trend of playing D tunes in C, there's very little reason to use a C whistle.

Around here, tunes in D Dorian and G Dorian seem to pop up often enough* to make a C whistle worth having along. Also a few actual C tunes (e.g., Graf Spey, Chicago Reel). Otherwise it's almost all D whistle, with few Québecois or OT tunes in the local session repertoire.

* I've noticed in particular that a few of the players here who have come through the program at Limerick seem to favor the odd keys. And I've wondered if this is an institutional trait, or something more broadly happening in Ireland.

And is playing D tunes in C really a trend to be aware of?

[highland-piper]

I wonder what keys most trad people would consider most useful.

And I wonder how you'd define "trad people," too.

For me, it's D and then Bb.

Bb because I have a friend who likes to play harp in the key of F, and Bb works for some tunes in F (ones that don't have many E#s) and it sounds cool with harp. It sounds cool by itself too, and since I don't usually play in sessions that's reason enough to play it.

Neil Anderson plays mainly Bb whistle on stage. I suppose because it sounds good and given the right choice of tunes makes a seemless transition to Highland bagpipe, which plays in the key of Eb. Provided your tune has no G's you can switch from one instrument to the other while the guitarist continues vamping.

[highland-piper]

Here's an example of two masters playing harp and whistle in duet. I'm not sure what key he's playing though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVDUj6B8pg

[Tommy]

The major cost in making whistles is labor, and offering odd sets like you describe wouldn't reduce that. In fact, it would INCREASE the labor costs since making each key of whistle using a different diameter requires changing machinery,jigs, drills, etc.

Exactly. It would only make sense for mass-produced factory items in order to entice customers to buy several at once, with a quantity discount.

Combo whistle sets with one head and two or more bodies in different keys make some sense, as it cuts costs and thereby price, making combos more economical than several individual whistles. But it often introduces a compromise in tonal qualities, because the same head has to serve whistles of different length with different length to bore ratios. It works best if the whistle bodies are only a semitone apart.

I concur with Paul, Hans, Fearfaion, and MT. Labor is a broad term to use, I prefer to say precision labor.

The best combo set I have played is a Syn set one head with D and C tone tubes. They sound very close to a Sindt.

Susato makes several combo sets with up to around four or five tubes per head. I did notice they do not make the same head for a D,C as the A, G.

I have experimented with one size 5/8'' id tone tube for G, A, C, D with one head. They were playable but as mentioned already there is a large compromise. Long story short the D was very loud, and the G required delicate breath control to prevent flipping up to the second octave.

[syn whistles]

The whole business of fitting multiple bodies to a single head is of course a compromise, the physics involved dictate that. What you get with a multiple set is potentially a group of whistles at a reasonable price that allows the player the opportunity of experiencing/using a wide range of different keys in different situations.
Don't assume either that whistle makers just make for trad players. There are all sorts of musicians who, for various reasons, want access to different keys, we like to look after them as well.
In any set of whistles you will get a couple, perhaps four bodies that will play 'optimally', usually in the middle of the range. Outside that range, shorter bodies tend to be very loud and the longer ones become quieter and more mellow. If a player finds they are playing those less optimal whistles more,they have at least had an introduction and a point to start from in looking for a better one. All it has cost them is a little extra for the extra body.
As for myself, I am often asked for multiple sets with two heads, so I try to voice the heads slightly differently so that one head will suit the longer bodies and the other head the shorter.