C# antique flutes

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Chiffed
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by Chiffed »

Rob Sharer wrote: what most people mean when they say "C flute", "D flute", or C# flute".
But are we like most people? :P

Three trivial points:

-Our usual naming system (D flute is concert) works fine. Calling it a D flute in C (sorta like an F trombone that's in C ie nontransposing) would be accurate but silly.

-Thanks all for not bringing up bansuri or shak nomenclature.

-Calling one that's a semitone flat a C# flute or an A=415 flute or a Db flute all work for me, though Db flute brings to mind piccolo in Db, which is an altogether different pot of kippers.
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talasiga
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by talasiga »

Its a rare day for we have the prospect of a hung parliamentl for Australia
and furthermore, I find myself agreeing with Rob Sharer!

I don't quite understand why Jem is raising this again for we have been through this umpteen times in these forums. That is why, despite the often very useful and informative gems we find in his posts, I feel that once agian Jem is veering to pedanticism. And by pedanticism I mean in the the strict, accurate sense of the word meaning expressing a correct thing OUT of CONTEXT or to a level of precision that is either redundant or not called for.

As for Rob's agreable entry, his point goes toward whistle nominations also.

As for bansuri, the D key bansuri for example (comparable to the D Irish flute) is predominantly nominated either as D key instrument or a G Sa (tonic) instrument, the latter denoting a tonic position XXX OOO which is preferred for North Indian classical music. This is merely an extension of the point covered by Rob.

For those of you who find this post long and laborious and itself veering to pedanticism, may I refer you to my previous succinct post at page 1 of 17 syllables. I hope it dosn't put you to sleep.
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dunnp
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by dunnp »

I take it you guys are trying to wind Jem up or something, gotta love this place. Anyway looking at a few sites that deal in antique flutes again, they seem to refer to pitch of A and sounding lengths so D or C flute for nomenclature doesn't really come up. though they call non D flutes as , F flutes F, Eb= eb, and Bb= Bb And Jem is right I find far fewer antiques lower than 430-435 ish. Terry recommends the C# to Eb measurement as a perhaps more useful for determining best pitch so any ideas as to what I could look for here? Loved looking at all the baroque flute sites but feel this may not be what I'm after. Though where can I find a used Aulos I imagine people sell them as they move on to other handmade traverso?. Interstingly at a session the other day a flute player picked up my slideless Owell flute and according to the C#D box player was playing in C sharp. Tried again and still in C sharp. He was lovely and in tune on his own Ormiston with the slide all the way in (i think the slide was stuck). I didn't have trouble playing his flute in tune without having to move the slide. Still haven't heard from the pipers. I will have to break out a tuner and use it on Ennis, Deegan, amd Smyth and see where their median pitch is. Most likely I'll end up with a german that plays low with a decent slide extention but still would like to know what else is out there. You could also play along with Ennis recording using pitch software could bring him down to play with my C flute or up to play with my C flute (I mean D, I mean C, I mean) oh done it again . Thanks again, Pat
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by benhall.1 »

If you are trying to wind Jem up, it's a waste of time - he won't notice.

:D :twisted:
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by Denny »

he will, however, submit 200+ words showing that he missed the windup :thumbsup:
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by benhall.1 »

They'll be perfectly reasoned, balanced and unassailable in their internal logic and grammar. I can't wait. :party:
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by jemtheflute »

What for?
Gon out. Backson.
(Not.)

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benhall.1
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by benhall.1 »

Sorry, Jem, you've lost me. Can you be a bit more explanatory?

:wink:
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Denny
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Re: C# antique flutes

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not good at terse :P
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by Kevin L. Rietmann »

Many antique chanters were built to length, from 14 1/2" to 18 1/2" in 1/2" increments, not to any specific desired pitch obtained from a more precise length. Pipers in the old days didn't care about pitch, they were almost entirely solo artists. There are exceptions to this rule, too. Ennis's chanter I believe was a 16". Liam O'Flynn says the set isn't stamped btw so it may just be an excellent Coyne copy.

Would love to see this Coyne flute, too. That family made very nice pipes.

Deegan and Smyth play modern instruments built by Geoff Wooff, who sets things precisely at A=440. He copies a C# Coyne whose owner lives in Tazmania. Brad Angus can build a copy of this set as well, he lives in the States.

Pulling the head on my old G Cloos flute out 1 3/8" I can get in tune with recordings of Brad playing one of his C# copies, so an antique LP might well do the trick. Cloos is what Rod Cameron copies for an 8 key flute, btw, them and R&R.

"Precise" is an imprecise word with the pipes, btw - other day I had to tune the regulators back up about 5 cents for some reason, heat or humidity doing their thing.
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by talasiga »

dunnp wrote:I take it you guys are trying to wind Jem up or something, gotta love this place. ........
no, I don't think so. I can't authoritatively speak for the others but I would opine that Rob Sharer and Chiffed, like me, are defending this position of yours
dunnp wrote:Hi Jem and all thanks for the help,
I don't think anyone here is confused by terminology. I'm sure everyone knows I wasn't asking about a Db Boehm flute. I think most of us would still refer to our D flutes as D and c flutes as c flutes like we do with whistles regardless of what are orchestral friends tell us.
...........
If anything, I am hoping to wind Jem down ........
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by jemtheflute »

talasiga wrote:If anything, I am hoping to wind Jem down ........
Whhhhhiiiiirrrrrrr...........
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by jemtheflute »

benhall.1 wrote:Sorry, Jem, you've lost me. Can you be a bit more explanatory?

:wink:
Well. I'm not totally sure I got the Pooh quite right...... and I couldn't do the line layout I wanted via mobile phone. Have edited it now. Any clearer?

:party:
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by dunnp »

Thanks Kevin,
I had read about the chanter length thing it just never had a reason to click before. Your post has been really helpful. I begining to suspect a a flute at a=420 ish or even an LP with a fair extension will do the trick as has been related by yourself and some others.
I used to have a cloos F that I bought off of Sillydil I think. I didn't use it much after I got a Sweet F that has more power to it. I sent it along as a surprise gift to someone who bought a severely broken flute from me so at least they'd have something playable when the package arrived.
So are Woof b sets at 440 as well? I have a B flute and am finding a lot of recorded sets are quite a bit higher and I have to push the head in or blow like hell causing some intonation problems not insurmountable a few cents but 20- 30 is a challenge. Most C sets seem to be closer to C so I'd imagine the coresponding inch length is close to c or players in C chose to have them pitched in C a440 because they want an instrument they can play with others?

Is there a chart somewhere on the uilleann forum that gives chanter lengths in a pitch standards , I feel like I've seen that before there?

Thanks again for the help, Patrick
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Re: C# antique flutes

Post by Mr.Gumby »

Remind yourself that length isn't the only determining factor of pitch. There are things at work on the inside of chanters as well.
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