B flute....anyone got one?

[dunnp]

Doug clearly didn't read my post if he thinks I am dumping on Casey. I stated I am happy with the flutes. Whatever Doug wants to believe my flutes do indeed show the characteristics I mentioned and it very clear visually especially in the head joint where if you look in one edge of the circle connects with the other edge. I can post pics. I thought this may be a problem if I ever decide to get a tuning slide, but I don't intend to. Casey has in the past defended himself on this board for things like I mentioned and said he makes flutes that sound good as this set does. However long one has been making flutes does not come into it. I will look up the past posts. The point of my post was to give Casey mention because I play his flutes and they sound good not to put down his flutes. Some people would be put off a bit by the roughness, I'm not.

[Rob Sharer]

Dunnp's observations are his own, and I see no reason to stifle them. I have no dog in this particular fight, but to my way of thinking, we need exactly this sort of information on the board.

"Dumping" would have been a completely different exercise. To dump on a maker's flutes, all you have to do is say "X's flutes suck, they're lousy, no good" or some such. Dunnp's observations were very specific, and were in fact accompanied by some ringing praise, hardly a dump-fest.

Casey is, of course, welcome to dispute any of the specifics.



Rob

[dunnp]

Casey Burns wrote the following in a post titled Perfection that I just looked up Doug you were part of this conversation if you don't recall,

This subject ties into one of my pet peeves.

What authority or in what rule book or regulation does it say that embouchures or toneholes of the flute we makers produce have to be perfectly symmetrical, or that outsides of flutes have to be perfectly finished, or that the bores of the flutes have to shine like a mirror, etcetera?

Its my experience and practice that when voicing an embouchure, I stop cutting wood when the flute plays its best. Sometimes this leaves the embouchure not entirely symmetrical. But I know from experience that any further cuts will destroy the balance, etc. I have ruined a number of head joints this way, trying to make them look "pretty". What is "pretty" turns out playing like crap.

Similarly, while turning these somewhat cantankerous woods one experiences "tear-out" of the grain. One can re-turn or sand the wood below this - but again, one can easily go beyond what works, in terms of wall thickness - especially at the embouchure. Remember that the outside surface has little bearing on the tone. One could spend hours polishing up a flute. But beyond a certain point (say, doing this for 30 years), one begins to ask "why bother?"

Sometimes the joints can be realigned by changing thread wrappings or cork. But so what if its not entirely straight? It doesn't matter - if the flute still plays well. Straightness isn't a quality that is required for wind instruments. Otherwise we would have great difficulties with such instruments as alto saxes, bass clarinets, and most of the brasses!

Again, what rule book or authority says that the bores have to be perfectly polished? This is another one that is heard frequently. One can read this in blogs, lists and in literature written by self important flute impresarios like Rockstro. It may be a matter or preference - but I prefer a bit of "tooth" to the wood in the bore. This gives some resistance, which is easier to play against. Its like the difference between giving weight in dancing and not giving weight.

The bottom line: does the flute play well? And does it feel comfortable to the player?

Casey



This is the problem with this board experienced players get chased off for having a real opinion on a flute. By the way this is not an opinion but a fact as that is how the flutes arrived to me from Casey. Newbies and others feel somehow personally offended because I have slight aesthetic issues with this set of flutes. I did not send the flutes back or bring it up with Casey because I would rather have the flutes to play than not. I make my living playing and am not concerened about my flutes being perfect. I used to personally offend others at sessions and such because I don't look after my flutes like they are my children. I have flutes to play if they do the job I don't care what they look like. In fact the headjoint of this flute has a crack that was repaired by another flute maker and held with an ugly imitation Ivory ring. I would have loved to have sent this flute back to Casey to fix but needed it done there and then so I could get back to my job where I played these flutes six nights a week. The other maker was surprised at this as well but said hey they work. this maker did not alter the bore only repaired the crack and reinforced it with an ugly ring. The crack is repaired the flutes play and the priest will get his easter dues and all will be happy here in fluteland.

Here is the only public clip I can find at the moment on youtube I made of the A body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NritusZsysU

I will make another of the B body when I have the time. And again the point of my post was to mention Casey's makes a B and not say anything against him or his flutes but I was called ungracious and accuse of dumping I think will go back to lurking and not saying anything even when I have something valid to say, Take Care, Patrick

[Rob Sharer]

Nice one, Doug.



Rob

[benhall.1]

Oh come one, Patrick, you can't be that thin-skinned can you? One comment and you're off? I understood what you were saying, and I think most people would. If you decide not to post, such opinions won't be heard, and I personally think that a range of opinions is exactly what makes a discussion board like this healthy (assuming it is).

[Denny]

*cough* I'm okay *cough*

[Doug_Tipple]

I'm sorry that my comments have upset you, Patrick. I probably should not do late night posts on C & F, and I shouldn't ride piggyback on Simon's posts, I see that. Part of the problem that I have is that my computer tends to squeeze certain letter combinations together, so that "dunnp" becomes "dump" on my screen, and "dumping" comes naturally to mind. My first thought as I was reading your post last night was that someone named dump was dumping on Casey, and I felt like I wanted to come to Casey's defense, although I was aware of the content of the previous thread that you mentioned. Anyway, Patrick, I'm sorry that I said that you were ungracious and were dumping on a helpless flutemaker, so please remove your lurking hat and rejoin the group of active participants on the flute forum, which certainly can benefit from informed comment.

[benhall.1]

*cough* I'm okay *cough*

Are you feeling a little horse?

[Denny]

the little ones are the wife's...





sometimes she lets me drive

[dunnp]

No problem Doug sorry to get on high horse here. I have been reading this board for years and used to have another id that I forgot when the board was first created. As you can see I only have a few posts compared to many. I am more of a lurker in general. I thought I gave a fair assesment of my experience. I was recommending Casey just adding something I thought was relevant. I ordered from him because the price was good (I can't remember now) for what was essentially 4 flutes. I don't think any other maker offers anything similar. I do get annoyed on here and on the Uilleann board where it can be worse when a, unqualified people make bad reviews of good and decent flutes or b, when people can't bear to hear or say anything other than praise about another flute. I would like to have a c sharp all boxwood flute I wonder if Casey would make me one. I also wouldn't mind a folk flute with the retro fit Eb key if casey ever gets around to that as well. If a little off kilter ah well if she plays okay no bother good price. Take Care, Patrick

[talasiga]

.....

Speaking of Australia
TERRY MCGEE makes em I believe - B flutes that is.
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Low%20flute%20models.htm

Its funny that thare has been more than a page of "discussion" triggered by my post but none of it relates to the most topic relevant portion of my post which was at the end of that post and in bold to boot.

[jemtheflute]

What was to discuss? It was a factually accurate, uncontroversial, useful and relevant contribution that spoke adequately for itself. I don't recall that the other equivalent posts got strings of approbatory comment... Or dissent, or discussion.