After forty years playing this music....

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Kirk B
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by Kirk B »

johnkerr wrote:Latest tune I learned from a member of Lunasa: a hornpipe Kevin Crawford gave us at a workshop last fall. He didn't have a name for it.
That's great but if he ever plans to record it on a CD he's going to have to call it something.
johnkerr wrote: Of course, if I'd waited until there was an app for that, none of this could ever have happened.
Nobody's waiting. I've been playing and learning so far without an app. It's not a crutch, it's just "handy".
johnkerr wrote:And as for having the name of a tune without knowing the tune vs having the tune without knowing the name, I'll take the latter any day. If you have a bushel of tunes and no names you can play all night, but if you have hundreds of names but no tunes to go with them you'll be done yelling out the names long before you've drained your first pint.
I really think you guys are missing the point. I don't think that anyone is suggesting (certainly not I) that these tools of modern convenience are a substitute or a short cut to becoming a good player. Nothing but listening and practicing will get you there. But the fact is that that people who play this music are spread out over a global scale now. For example, I've learned a lot of tunes from Michael Clarkson. I've never met him, I've never been to Ireland, but I love his playing and his style and if it weren't for knowing the names of tunes, his wonderful Web site would be completely useless to me. What a shame that would be.

Cheers,

Kirk
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johnkerr
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

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For example, I've learned a lot of tunes from Michael Clarkson. I've never met him, I've never been to Ireland, but I love his playing and his style and if it weren't for knowing the names of tunes, his wonderful Web site would be completely useless to me. What a shame that would be.
Why is that? If he threw up a website full of gan ainms you wouldn't want to learn any of those tunes?
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Kirk B
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

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johnkerr wrote:
For example, I've learned a lot of tunes from Michael Clarkson. I've never met him, I've never been to Ireland, but I love his playing and his style and if it weren't for knowing the names of tunes, his wonderful Web site would be completely useless to me. What a shame that would be.
Why is that? If he threw up a website full of gan ainms you wouldn't want to learn any of those tunes?

Sure I would, but here's real life example for you of going about it the other way. The other day I had a tune stuck in my head but I didn't know the name of it. I played the part of it that I could remember into the Tunepal app and even though my memory was pretty shaky on the notes, I found the tune I was looking for in the top 10 returns. It was the "Duke of Leinster". So I said to myself, "Hmmm, I wonder if Michael has a recording of that?" I typed "Duke of Leinster" into the search field on his site and viola! Miachael Clarkson's take of the Duke was spilling out of my speakers.

Regards,

Kirk
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by Cathy Wilde »

@ Othannen -- I read Julia's initial post twice and didn't get that there was an issue with anyone ASKING the name of a tune; the problem was with stopping the session to look the tune up.

As for the gizmo, OK, have fun with it, but please have the good manners to not interrupt my session with it. The music of the moment is more important to me, thanks.
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

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Kirk B wrote:I typed "Duke of Leinster" into the search field on his site and viola! Miachael Clarkson's take of the Duke was spilling out of my speakers.
Wow, that's an even worse sin than playing Irish music on an iPhone. Playing it on a viola. Sacrilege!
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by Cathy Wilde »

:lol:
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

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johnkerr wrote:
Kirk B wrote:I typed "Duke of Leinster" into the search field on his site and viola! Miachael Clarkson's take of the Duke was spilling out of my speakers.
Wow, that's an even worse sin than playing Irish music on an iPhone. Playing it on a viola. Sacrilege!
LOL, I was trying to be funny. And I don't play the music on my iPhone, I just look up the name of the tune. :P

And to "Julia" and Cathy's point about stopping a session. I can't imagine why anyone would need to do that while using this app.

Right, I'm going to go drink myself into a state of unconsciousness now.

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Re: After forty years playing this music....

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uillmann wrote:If I could hum a few bars into my cell phone and it would give me the name of the tune, that would be pretty cool.
be careful which bars ya hum in :twisted:

some of 'em might take offense
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by hans »

The very near future will of course be that tunepal will routinely listen in on all sessions, and announce the tune names on The Big Screen of the pub. Underneath a map will show where this tune is played this instant. Then sessions will start reacting on this and we have synchronised sessions globally, with a few rebel sessions trying to play different tunes. Oh yes, and tunepal will announce what the next tune will be, on the probability having been played before after the current one.
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by eskin »

Julia Delaney wrote:Bryan (scooter) is a great guy: good looking, sexy, smart... and he really is a terrific flute player. But you know what? This internet app stuff doesn't matter. Not one little bit. It's all about the music, not the names of the tunes, or who is more authentic or who has the “better” version. It's all about the social evening and sharing the music and the chat. The same is true of Eskin's great application that makes it easy to play the concertina on your iPhone while waiting for the lab results.
I cannot imagine sitting in with the old guys and when they ask “what's the name of the second tune?” stopping the ongoing flow of music and chat to start dialing up tunepal to get the name. Which (the name) doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot, does it? And you're not going to tell me that thesession.org or henrik's site has the “right” setting for the tune, are you? So while it may be fun and another use for a modern gizmo, in the long run (which is what traditional music is all about, right? Rather than this week's Top-40?) it probably takes you away from the music rather than towards the music.
The app for pipes or concertina might be a kick but can you imagine going into a session and playing your iPhone? It's just a temporary giggle. Temporary giggles are fun, but they are only temporary. Devaney's Goat, however, played on a real instrument (and no matter you call the tune) will outlast any iPhone app. As well as living longer than any player and most instruments.
I am glad that Bryan got his doctorate and happy for Eskin that his app is in such demand. But I don't think these things will make anybody play his music any better than if the time were spent with instrument (a real instrument) in hand.
Are these apps indispensable? I think not.
I don't disagree with you at all.

My iPhone and iPad apps aren't a replacement for the real thing nor have I ever represented them that way. Besides just being good fun on their own, they can be a bridge for someone who can't afford the instrument (have you priced a concertina or a set of pipes recently?) or who wants to get a sense for the instrument without having to make a large investment. These apps have also familiarized a large number of people with the instruments, which in the long run will be good for the builders since some of the people may want to eventually get a real instrument. Its also great for playing in circumstances where playing the acoustic instrument might be problematic, like on the bus, train, plane, or office.

Of course this sort of thing is not for everybody. The feedback I get from users tells me that there are some very fine players (including at least one All-Ireland winner) who are getting value from the apps, either as scratchpads for working out tunes, or in the case of my iPad ConcertinaXL app, the only way they can practice while recovering from a shoulder injury.

Sure, these apps may not be something someone would want, or can imagine ever wanting, I absolutely respect that.

Still, I think its pretty cool to be able to do this on something besides a $10,000 set of Woofe pipes:

"The Rocks of Bawn"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywOss7oBhMs

I learned the tune from Robbie Hannan's CD using the Uilleann-B app, and now can play it on my real set. It was just easier and more convenient sitting at my desk using Transcribe on my PC going through the tune phrase by phrase and working it out from Robbie's recording using the iPad app than it would be to have strapped on my real set and run the computer at the same time. Since the fingerings in the app and on the real instrument are the same, I have it on both the virtual and real instrument now.

There's real value it that, at least to me. But not everyone shares my enthusiasm for using technology this way as tools to aid with learning the music. That's fine, it's available if anyone wants it.

I'm not advocating showing up at your local session and bringing your iPad instead of the real instrument, that would be just ridiculous.

Here's the truly over-the-top nightmare scenario:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jho-WHAHT2k

All we need now is Bryan's app at the end showing the tune name and then we can turn things over to SkyNet.
Last edited by eskin on Fri May 21, 2010 3:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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an seanduine
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by an seanduine »

Tools are NOT the JOB

:really:
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by eskin »

an seanduine wrote:Tools are NOT the JOB

:really:
Bob
Where's the "Like" button? :-)
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by Aanvil »

eskin wrote: I'm not advocating showing up at your local session and bringing your iPad instead of the real instrument, that would be just ridiculous.

Yes... yes it would.

Bring it anyway.

I want see that blasphemous devil in person and to play along with it.

Its got a line out that you can amplify right?

:D
Aanvil

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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by eskin »

John and I are hosting at the Auld Dubliner on the 30th, I'll have the iPad in tow...
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Re: After forty years playing this music....

Post by Kevin L. Rietmann »

eskin wrote:Still, I think its pretty cool to be able to do this on something besides a $10,000 set of Woofe pipes:

"The Rocks of Bawn"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywOss7oBhMs
Huh?

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You'd save about $300 too.

Somebody showed me the regulator app - pretty bizarre on its own, like packing around nothing but the accordion's bass section.
Here's the truly over-the-top nightmare scenario:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jho-WHAHT2k

All we need now is Bryan's app at the end showing the tune name and then we can turn things over to SkyNet.
Actually that's in the works:
Ray Kurzweil wrote:These resources will provide high-resolution, full-immersion visual-auditory virtual reality at any time.
We will also have augmented reality with displays overlaying the real world to provide real-time guidance
and explanations. For example, your retinal display might remind us, "That's Dr. John Smith, director of the
ABC Institute—you last saw him six months ago at the XYZ conference" or, "That's the Time-Life
Building—your meeting is on the tenth floor."
We'll have real-time translation of foreign languages, essentially subtitles on the world, and access to
many forms of online information integrated into our daily activities. Virtual personalities that overlay the
real world will help us with information retrieval and our chores and transactions. These virtual assistants
won't always wait for questions and directives but will step forward if they see us struggling to find a piece
of information. (As we wonder about "That actress ... who played the princess, or was it the queen ... in that
movie with the robot," our virtual assistant may whisper in our ear or display in our visual field of view:
"Natalie Portman as Queen Amidala in Star Wars, episodes 1, 2, and 3.")
From his book The Singularity Is Near, published in 2005. It's part of a prediction for the near term future, off in far distant, uh, 2010...OK, jumping the gun a bit. But there's nothing technically impossible about this vision, which is equal parts Slashdot and Orwell.

All of it being more than a bit removed from the music's origins, to say the least. Oh well. How about the tune name floating up out of your pint? Or being superimposed on the fiddle bow?
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