Outgrowing Instruments

[mutepointe]

I'm asking this question here because this seems to be the most serious minded forum of the ones I read regularly but this could pertain to any type instrument. I just want to hear what folks have to say on this subject. Getting the thread locked because of contentiousness would rock!

How exactly does a person outgrow an instrument?

[pflipp]

Nice one I see a few options:

- The instrument is kiddie sized
- The instrument has limitations that are only appreciated by advanced players.

Or so I've heard . But I think there really can be. As long as an instrument is basically OK, you can learn to play on it. And when you start working on the finer properties of your play, you may find them harder to produce on your instrument, compared to another one of, say, ten times the price

So far for the well-expected answer. As for the well-expected counterargument: of course a lot of us "up" our instruments far before we've outgrown them. Hobbies should be rewarding and need not be rational

[peeplj]

I'm not sure I like the term "outgrow" so much.

Sometimes instruments can have inherent limitations; just as an example, a keyless flute is great for most ITM, but should you acquire a burning desire to learn either B-flat fiddle tunes, or Bach's Sonata for Flute in E-Major, a keyless flute won't be of much use to you in either case.


--James

[jim stone]

I think it may be that some flutes don't have that much in em, rather like
beginner's Boehm flutes. Easy to play but maybe not so interesting to
someone intermediate or advanced.

[mrcharly]

I'm an absolute beginner and I can see myself 'outgrowing' the Dixon flute I bought a month ago.
It's a cylindrical plastic flute and sounds fine played solo. However (as I discovered last night), the F# is miles out, which is a problem when playing along with someone else. My wife has a tenor recorder and we were trying some tunes together - had to lay down the dixon and pick up the battered old Boehm that I started learning on.

Interestingly, both the Boehm and Jem's 'simple flute' were spot on with the recorder. So the 'commercially made' Dixon was out, and Jem's 'amateur-made' flute was perfect.

So as soon as I start playing with other people, I will have outgrown the Dixon low D.

Edited to clarify; by "Jem's amateur' flute I meant it wasn't a commercially manufactured instrument.

[benhall.1]

I know he's a pal of mine 'n' all, so some may think I'm biased, but I have to tell you, Jem would think that the bias - in keeping with my natural contrariness - worked the other way, and I'm far more horrible to him than if he wasn't a friend.

Still 'n' all, I can't accept the description of Jem's simple system piccolos (if it was one of these you were referring to) as "amateur". They're bloody good instruments, made to a professional standard at a decent price and sound **!?*ng brilliant! (Good for embouchure, too, as he keeps telling me.)

It doesn't surprise me at all that Jem's picc was "perfect" in terms of tuning. What I would expect.

I bet it blew the windows out, too.

[Denny]

wow! a four d'uh post!

[benhall.1]

I can be more blindingly obvious if required ...

... and the fee's right ...

[Denny]

worth every penny, it was

[pflipp]

I have been corrected for being too reasonable in my previous posting. Thought I'd make it up.

Some other good reasons to "grow out of" instruments:

- My current flute is now over 140 years old. Time for a new one.
- I like my wooden flutes covered with silver. OTOH, I like my Boehms covered with wood. Generally, I hate the rainforest.
- My current flute has grown usage marks (though I can't figure out how they got there).
- I only need one flute, and this is the one. (Actually seen on this forum repeated with different flutes )
- My old flute is limited. My new flute takes getting used to. I can actually make people believe that the flute is to blame.
- I invest my money into goods with excellent future value expectations, and I don't like Chinese modern art.
- I actually broke my previous flute by sitting on it, but I won't admit that here.
- I slide flute parts over my fingers and play Edward Scissorhands. Recently I've gained some weight. Now I need a Pratten.
- I oil my flutes with peanut butter and now I can't play the low E anymore.
- I use my Pratten as a coin sorter, but recently my country switched to the Euro. I'm still looking for compatible makers.
- I recently got access to my retirement money, and am in desparate need of a hobby to take seriously.
- I recently got a big bill, so I decided to sell my Wilkes. Hey, I've outgrown it anyway.
- I've bought yet another flute, but I can't put it into my house without another one falling out of the backdoor.
- Buying high-end flutes and then saying I've outgrown them is good for my reputation.
- I love my flute but it is has a bad rep on C&F.

Hope this helps Still, softie me wants to stress: there are no serious comments among the above.

[Gordon]

If we're talking inferior flutes vs. higher quality (not even getting into keys, and how many), then, of course, a flute can be outgrown by an advanced or advancing player who needs/desires a better quality instrument. The argument here, then, is to start on the best you can get/afford, not start on something that is fundamentally inferior, so that you will, by necessity, outgrow your flute.

But if we're talking about moving on to a more complimentary flute for what you are after as a player, personally, then it can be said a player 'outgrows' a flute when they find another flute that better fits what they want in a flute, or as a player. As a guitarist, I found that I liked Strats more than Les Pauls; I certainly didn't "outgrow" a Les Paul, I just found I liked playing Strats more, and therefore played better on them.

A second flute, particularly of a different style, is a help, too - playing circumstances change, and no one guitar, um, flute is perfect for every occasion. I tend to play my Hamilton with other players around, as it has a particularly loud voice, and my Hernon Rudall when I'm on my own. But either will serve, and ultimately, you tend to prefer one flute over all others.

At least until you don't.

[peeplj]

There is also the fact that flutes cost money, and usually the better the flute, the more it costs.

Now I'll grant you that, especially when you're talking a performance-level instrument, simple system flutes tend to cost less than their Boehm-system counterparts...you can easily pay $8000 and up on the Boehm-system side of things. But wooden flutes can still be expensive, and not everyone thinking about starting a hobby can spend what the finest flutes, even the keyless ones, cost. Then you also have the waiting lists, and the fact that rarely will someone start a new hobby if they have to wait a year or more before they can.

These are some of the factors that lead people to purchase a flute at the start that they may wind up wanting to replace with a better one later on.

Finally, choosing a flute is a very personal decision, and requires a certain degree of thought and of experience. There are two broad families of wooden flute design which each have their own unique characteristics, and in addition to this there are the differences from maker to maker. At the start you might not know the difference between an Olwell and a Wilkes (just to pick two names out of the hat), and wouldn't have any experience to help you make the choice. I think that's a decision best made after you've already played for at least a couple of years and are starting to get a feel for what each kind of flute sounds like.

Just my $.02.


--James

[mrcharly]

Still 'n' all, I can't accept the description of Jem's simple system piccolos (if it was one of these you were referring to) as "amateur".

I've edited my original post to clarify, no criticism of Jem's flute was intended.

I agree, they are very good, and very loud (actually, that's my one complaint; they are tooo loud. Can we have a quieter model, please?).

[benhall.1]

Still 'n' all, I can't accept the description of Jem's simple system piccolos (if it was one of these you were referring to) as "amateur".

I've edited my original post to clarify, no criticism of Jem's flute was intended.

I agree, they are very good, and very loud (actually, that's my one complaint; they are tooo loud. Can we have a quieter model, please?).

Get quieter model lips.



[Actually, easy for me to say - one for me to practice, too. ]

[I.D.10-t]

The bottom two octaves have dynamics to spare and can produce almost a wispier. Jem's piccolo can be one quiet tooter without losing integrity of the notes.

To me it seems that flutes need to be pushed, where as a piccolo (or any short flute) needs to be reigned in.

~~~~~
As for the subject, as one learns how they like to play they develop preferences. On the whistle forum it is often said that a whistle was thrown into a drawer and forgotten about because it didn't play well just to find that years later it actually played great. It was grown into.

In developing one's playing one "grows" in different directions. A flute that once was temperamental becomes a flute that is expressive. An easy blower becomes dull and lifeless. Some people use a nail gun, others a hammer.