the tail-end of long notes

[Denny]

What were we talking about ? Am I supposed to experiment with the colours etc somewhere else ?

ah, the trailings got side swiped by the driftings

if it ain't one thing it's somethin' else

[MTGuru]

What were we talking about ? Am I supposed to experiment with the colours etc somewhere else ?

Do you mean colors? OK, peace.

[david_h]

[s1m0n]

Current most common usage. The OED folks will catch up eventually.

The OED is a descriptive dictionary. They have little or nothing to say about what is 'most common', and in any case, that's something that can vary widely both geographically and over time.

[david_h]

Its not worth getting upset over but

chanty (also chantey)
noun (plural chanties) archaic or North American variant spellings of shanty

and pronounces the ch soft as in French 'chantez!'

[benhall.1]

"Chantey" singing? Is this shanty singing? Or is it some different thinig that happens in the States? I'm half Cornish, and learnt shanties on my mother's knee (mainly forgotten) and she wouldn't have sung like that.

That's both bitchy and uninformed.

I don't accept either of those accusations. The normal spelling in common useage in the places shanties come from is shanty/-ies. I hadn't previously come across the other before and, when I Googled "chantey" before that post, the only entries that came up were from the States, mostly from San Francisco. I have looked up the other spellings now and Chambers gives "shanty" as the primary spelling. The Oxford English Dictionary doesn't have entries for either "chanty" or "chantey", although it does give these as alternative (ie not the usual) spellings of "shanty", but only under the entry sor "shanty".

"Uninformed"? I suppose that could be true, in that I was going by direct experience of people who sing these things in the UK and by the normal word as it is used in the English language. Apologies for that ignorance. "Bitchy"? Absolutely not - not by intent, at any rate. It was a question. It would probably be better not to make those sort of assumptions about perfectly reasonable posts.

[benhall.1]

MT Guru, you did make me laugh about forgetting my mother's knee, though! Tee hee.

And yes, I do accept that it may not be a reverb-inspired affectation. Sounds even worse with reverb though ...

[s1m0n]

The Oxford English Dictionary doesn't have entries for either "chanty" or "chantey", although it does give these as alternative (ie not the usual) spellings of "shanty", but only under the entry sor "shanty".

It does in mine.

[benhall.1]

I had SO check. Not in mine. Could be different editions. Mine is the full, 13 volume edition, published in 1979. So I suppose it could be out of date. Like me.

[david_h]

The CDrom version I quoted from above is the Concise OED 11th edition. It is described on the CD box as a " major new edition"

UK usage since at least the start of the folk revival, and long before the death of 'the last shantyman' has been 'shanty'

peace ?

[benhall.1]

The CDrom version I quoted from above is the Concise OED 11th edition. It is described on the CD box as a " major new edition"

UK usage since at least the start of the folk revival, and long before the death of 'the last shantyman' has been 'shanty'

peace ?

Peace? Peace??!!?!!! What on earth do you want THAT for?

Mornin' David.

Peace indeed.

Ben

[Hotblack]

The Oxford English Dictionary doesn't have entries for either "chanty" or "chantey", although it does give these as alternative (ie not the usual) spellings of "shanty", but only under the entry sor "shanty".

It does in mine.

In an attempt to help I suspect I may just muddy the waters but here goes .

My OED (Concise, 9th Ed, 1995) has

chanty var. of SHANTY

and

shanty n. (also chanty)(pl. -ies) [probably French chantez]

[benhall.1]

In any case, David, we can't have peace for long. Well, not where I am at any rate, since I have to go and practice my flute, as I have my grade 3 next Friday (peace = absence of noise). (Aagh! Less than a week - wish me luck. )

Or were you giving me an instruction to shut up (another of the meanings of "peace" given in the OED)?

[s1m0n]

Interestingly, my reprint of Admiral W. H. Smyth's nautical dictionary The Sailor's Word-Book (pub 1867) has neither. Shanty's there, but the sole definition given is "a small hut on a beach", which has nothing to do with this discussion.

Smyth was born in 1788 and went to sea shortly after the turn of the 19th century. He retired a full admiral in 1825, and died forty years later just as his 750 page magnum opus was going to press.

Sea shanties historically were more common in merchant vessels than in the royal navy*, but Smyth includes all manner of non-naval material.

* Partly because of the presence of a detachment of marines in all but the smallest naval vessels. The marines usually had at least a fife and drum, which were often used to supply music in place of shanties.

[david_h]

Shanty's there, but the sole definition given is "a small hut on a beach", which has nothing to do with this discussion

Ah, but now that I have been provoked into loading this CDrom OED that I bought in a charity shop I can quickly tell you that it is:
"C19: perhaps from Canadian French chantier 'lumberjack's cabin, logging camp'."
and so maybe another example of the 'ch' being spelled 'sh' to keep it soft in english.

Ben - the 'peace' was echoing MTGuru in acknowledgement of his moderating influence; I suppose he may have meant it as 'shut up' in a schoolteacherish sort of way. Good luck with the exam.