the tail-end of long notes

[david_h]

I could be wrong, but from what I've listened to the older way, the tradtional way, was to end notes somewhat abruptly, without any attempt at polish or craft. It was the same with piping and traditional singing from what I've heard.

In the old recordings (and maybe when heard live) I wonder if that could sometimes be a premature return to self-conciousness (or embarrassment, or shyness) in the presence of a microphone or unfamiliar 'audience' in someone not used to 'performing'. Sometimes in archive field recordings we hear a singer finish a song and then the last note goes straight into a spoken "that's it" or similar words.

[benhall.1]

Yeah, Micho was individual right enough. And he wasn't the be-all and end-all of whistlers. Great, but there are other, different greats.

However, back to the point - I still hate that dreadful "Celtic", soppy, over-smooth, wishy-washy, sentimental, saggy sort of thing that people do at the end of notes because record company executives and directors of Titanic expect it.

But perhaps it's time I came off the fence ...

[david_h]

Maybe what they want for the last note-ote-ote
is because of all the reverb-erb-erb.

[s1m0n]

Thanks for posting the poem, that is a beautiful piece of writing.

There's another good'un on the same theme, also from Death of a Naturalist:

Digging

Between my finger and my thumb
The squat pen rests; as snug as a gun.

Under my window a clean rasping sound
When the spade sinks into gravelly ground:
My father, digging. I look down

Till his straining rump among the flowerbeds
Bends low, comes up twenty years away
Stooping in rhythm through potato drills
Where he was digging.

The coarse boot nestled on the lug, the shaft
Against the inside knee was levered firmly.
He rooted out tall tops, buried the bright edge deep
To scatter new potatoes that we picked
Loving their cool hardness in our hands.

By God, the old man could handle a spade,
Just like his old man.

My grandfather could cut more turf in a day
Than any other man on Toner's bog.
Once I carried him milk in a bottle
Corked sloppily with paper. He straightened up
To drink it, then fell to right away
Nicking and slicing neatly, heaving sods
Over his shoulder, digging down and down
For the good turf. Digging.

The cold smell of potato mold, the squelch and slap
Of soggy peat, the curt cuts of an edge
Through living roots awaken in my head.
But I've no spade to follow men like them.

Between my finger and my thumb
The squat pen rests.
I'll dig with it.

[m31]

Comparing a "modern" (or any) whistler to Micho Russell would be something like comparing Stevie Ray Vaughn to Robert Johnson. It's a red herring. No one I've heard is trying to sound just like Micho. He's somewhat of an outlier.

[pancelticpiper]

Something else just occurred to me on the subject of dropoffs/downward glides.

I don't know how familiar some of you are with piobaireachd, the ancient "classical" music of the Highland pipes.

It's seemingly always been the tradition for the teacher to sing the tunes to the student, either in strict canntaireachd (a old sol-fa system) or in canntaireachd-like nonsense syllables.

What's strange is the dual tradition, the maintaining over (as far as we know) many generations of teachers of a way of singing the tunes which is at variance with how they're actually played on the pipes.

The most striking variances are the expressive devices present in the singing which is not present in the playing. I've got a number of recordings of the same master player singing and playing the same tune, and in the singing of the tune is used vibrato and downward glides. Traditional piobaireachd playing on the Highland pipes uses no vibrato or glides whatsoever, the emphasis being on absolutely plain clear notes.

Anyhow it's interesting that that downward gliding effect which strikes me as evidence of outside jazz/pop influence when done on Irish instruments is in fact an old, traditional style done in the singing of piobaireachd.

[MTGuru]

It's certainly also done in traditional English ballad singing, chantey singing, and I believe in sean nos, to cite a few. So it's not really fair to condemn it as a reverb-induced affectation.

[benhall.1]

It's certainly also done in traditional English ballad singing, chantey singing, and I believe in sean nos, to cite a few. So it's not really fair to condemn it as a reverb-induced affectation.

Is it? I used to be heavily involved in the English ballad world. My best mate was Peter Kennedy (lord rest him). But I haven't come across it ... from memory ... ever. "Chantey" singing? Is this shanty singing? Or is it some different thinig that happens in the States? I'm half Cornish, and learnt shanties on my mother's knee (mainly forgotten) and she wouldn't have sung like that. And all the Sean Nos singers I've come across hold the ends of notes with the same intensity of tone and with pitch rigid throughout the note (or at least, after some initial 'negotiation' at the start of most of the notes )

But, even if it was trad to be all droopy and sentimental - and I just can't see it, having grown up in and been part of the trad scene of 'these islands' all my life - I'd still hate it. Talk to trad musicians who do it (I can think of a specific example, but I'd rather not quote him, 'cos he might not like it) and the ones who do it - the ones I like, at any rate - will say they do it 'cos it's expected. I've never asked who might expect it, but have drawn my own conclusions ... admittedly perhaps wrongly. Who knows?

[benhall.1]

... actually just a little correction: PK wasn't so much a 'best mate' as more of a second father. I miss him.

[MTGuru]

"Chantey" singing? Is this shanty singing? Or is it some different thing that happens in the States?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chantey

I'm half Cornish, and learnt shanties on my mother's knee (mainly forgotten)

You should never forget your mother's knee!

And all the Sean Nos singers I've come across hold the ends of notes

I'm on less solid ground with sean nos. But remembering the Sean Nos Festival in Clifden a few years ago, it seems to me there was some variety of styles represented.

the ones who do it - the ones I like, at any rate - will say they do it 'cos it's expected.

I'll stand by the point that it may be an affectation, but not necessarily a reverb-inspired affectation ...

[Denny]

I'm half Cornish, and learnt shanties on my mother's knee (mainly forgotten)

You should never forget your mother's knee!

or yer father's face

should ya ha'happened ta se it.

[david_h]

Shanties with an S ? Cornwall ? Topical !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8572962.stm

[s1m0n]

"Chantey" singing? Is this shanty singing? Or is it some different thinig that happens in the States? I'm half Cornish, and learnt shanties on my mother's knee (mainly forgotten) and she wouldn't have sung like that.

That's both bitchy and uninformed. There are several spellings, all equally correct. The OED has chanty, chantey and shanty.

[Denny]

I had a coworker once named Chani

I don't remember her singing.

[david_h]

"Chantey" singing? Is this shanty singing?

Did you mean: shanties

Current most common usage. The OED folks will catch up eventually.

What were we talking about ? Am I supposed to experiment with the colours etc somewhere else ?