Perfection?

[m31]

I have or have been through more flutes than I care to admit, made by some reputable makers. These are relatively pricey toys so I have rather high expectations. Over the years, I've noticed "defects" in workmanship, which don't seem to have or shouldn't have any impact on the playability and tone. Here are some examples:

- Asymmetric embouchure or tone holes (I mean the hole is neither perfectly round or oval)
- Slightly kinked rings
- Filled gouges in the wood; very tiny chips in the wood
- Rough finish (machining/turning marks evident)
- Head liner is too long
- Knots, unmatched wood sections
- When the flute is assembled, it's not quite straight

What have you seen?

[Rob Sharer]

Nothing; had my eyes closed.




Rob

[jim stone]

I never had the wrong kind of orgasm.
Woody Allen

[I.D.10-t]

Screws that had slots that were not parallel to the length of the flute. (Pewter plug plates)
Mangled edges on screws. (Pewter plug plates)
Uneven chamfering on the finger holes.
No attempt to come close to the appearance of continuous grain along the sections.
Metal and wood not flush with each other on rings and ferrules that are designed to be that way. (Although this, like warping can be due to changes in climate and not a fault of the maker)

And why can't we get get some decent wood carvers doing something like this to sections of the flute?



I mean, we have engraved and chased rings and keys on flutes, what about a little wood work?

Really, I don't care. I see no reason for rings, staining, and cannot figure out if there is any real need for an end cap. As long as the holes and bore are not fuzzy, and the holes can be covered without leaking, the flute solid without leaks or wobble, and it is in tune, I'm a happy camper. (Not that I am a professional) All functional things the same, the rest is art.

I have trimmed screws on the underside so that they ran parallel to the length of an object and then ground off the top to make it flush with rest of the project. Didn't change the function one bit. I have also seen axes beautifully made with polished heads and perfect circular grooves on the handle at the grip, running for $160. I don't think I would spend $40 on an axe, but hey different folks...

...Same with kitchen knives, I have a set of functional knives that I must admit have some rough edges and the name stamped on the side crushed the wood in a weird way. But the steel is good, holds its edge, and it does what a knife should. Not that I would turn my nose up at a Wüsthof Classic 12-Inch Heavy Cooks Knife if it was given to me...

But now I am rambling so I'll stop there...

[Nanohedron]

All functional things the same, the rest is art.

...Same with kitchen knives, I have a set of functional knives that I must admit have some rough edges and the name stamped on the side crushed the wood in a weird way. But the steel is good, holds its edge, and it does what a knife should. Not that I would turn my nose up at a Wüsthof Classic 12-Inch Heavy Cooks Knife if it was given to me...

You want from art? Try this:

[I.D.10-t]

I guess kitsch is a kind of art.

I think I made the mistake of watching Guy Fieri for about 10 minutes, couldn't watch more than that.

[smoro]

Yes, I agree with you, I have seen many of those issues you say, but never in a Wilkes!!!!. It is the closer to perfection.

[plunk111]

Hmmm... I've owned Copley, McGee, Sweet, Healy, Burns (Bb), and M&E and have never seen any of these issues - guess I'm just lucky!

[Gabriel]

Regarding grain matching: it is nice when it works out, but sometimes it just isn't possible. It is always a matter of what's accessible. Not every maker can afford or wants to buy huge 750x40x40 billets - they're way more expensive, at the same quality. I still have to find a wood supplier who charges by weight...
Knots: I think it would be stupid to discard a piece of would because of knots. The stuff is expensive and rare enough, so we should use what we can get. Wood is natural and can have knots. Where's the problem?

I currently have a high-end baroque flute on loan that shows sanding marks. That is something I really wouldn't want on my a-few-thousand-bucks flute. It is not a problem to add a bit of hand sanding in grain direction between the machine-aided sanding steps. You don't even have to remove the piece from the lathe, and the finish is so much better.

Ah, and regarding asymmetric embouchure holes: the embouchure hole is THE spot where form follows function. If an embouchure hole is totally asymmetric, but allows me to get a tone and hard honking D to die for, I couldn't care less, really.

[Doug_Tipple]

I have mixed thoughts on perfectionism in people and in art/craftsmanship. My dad was a perfectionist, and he was hard to live with. Some of his obsessive nature is present in all three of his sons. I find myself fussing over some detail to the point where I sense that I am wasting time, but that's the way I am. On the other hand, I have come to accept some imperfection in my work, else I would be spinning my wheels having to do things over and over to get them absolutely perfect. I try for perfection, but I accept less.

The Shaker craftsmen in nineteenth century USA were famous for their elegant designs and excellent craftsmanship. However, on every piece of work they deliberately left something a little less than perfect, because in their minds only God is perfect. Personally, I admire some non-uniformity in hand-made items. A piece of pottery with hand-written initials of the maker seems more personal than a piece with only a stamped impression. I have a similar attitude about laser engraving.

[O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago]

Luckily my current flute is perfect, but here is pics of a not so perfect one I sent back to the maker. Luckily for them they shall remain unnamed as they were kind enough to give me a partial refund of sorts.... was still a headache. I just think if you're paying over 4k for a flute it better be good, and in tune as well. Things to look for...

-Chipped Bb block
-Exposed solder joints on all springs
-Pin not properly cut and crimped
-Inside tubing of headjoint had major scratches from tools
-Graft was used on the end of footjoint.
-Instrument had dirt all over it
-Keys were set way too high

And here's the pictures to prove it...

[Brazenkane]

Both my Aebi and my 3 Hamiltons are extremely well made and as near "perfection" as anyone could should expect.

[chas]

I've seen some of these things in flutes that I love. I've seen none of them in some flutes that I haven't liked. I've seen some in flutes that I haven't liked.

Those flutes that are warned about in the sticky are most often beautiful, but they most often don't play well.

There's probably a pattern, but I'll take an ugly player any day over a beautiful FLO.

And odd-shaped tone holes are often a good sign. They're a sign that the flute has been hand-voiced, which may involve asymmetric undercutting. I have flutes from two absolutely top-notch makers with tone holes that have a bit of teardrop shape to them if you look closely.

[Denny]

so much harder to make the holes a wee bit smaller, innit

[Casey Burns]

This subject ties into one of my pet peeves.

What authority or in what rule book or regulation does it say that embouchures or toneholes of the flute we makers produce have to be perfectly symmetrical, or that outsides of flutes have to be perfectly finished, or that the bores of the flutes have to shine like a mirror, etcetera?

Its my experience and practice that when voicing an embouchure, I stop cutting wood when the flute plays its best. Sometimes this leaves the embouchure not entirely symmetrical. But I know from experience that any further cuts will destroy the balance, etc. I have ruined a number of head joints this way, trying to make them look "pretty". What is "pretty" turns out playing like crap.

Similarly, while turning these somewhat cantankerous woods one experiences "tear-out" of the grain. One can re-turn or sand the wood below this - but again, one can easily go beyond what works, in terms of wall thickness - especially at the embouchure. Remember that the outside surface has little bearing on the tone. One could spend hours polishing up a flute. But beyond a certain point (say, doing this for 30 years), one begins to ask "why bother?"

Sometimes the joints can be realigned by changing thread wrappings or cork. But so what if its not entirely straight? It doesn't matter - if the flute still plays well. Straightness isn't a quality that is required for wind instruments. Otherwise we would have great difficulties with such instruments as alto saxes, bass clarinets, and most of the brasses!

Again, what rule book or authority says that the bores have to be perfectly polished? This is another one that is heard frequently. One can read this in blogs, lists and in literature written by self important flute impresarios like Rockstro. It may be a matter or preference - but I prefer a bit of "tooth" to the wood in the bore. This gives some resistance, which is easier to play against. Its like the difference between giving weight in dancing and not giving weight.

The bottom line: does the flute play well? And does it feel comfortable to the player?

Casey