How much ornamentation is enough?

[DrPhill]

And how can one tell?

[Bothrops]

Enough for who?
If you are playing for yourself, and you like the way it sounds, you can put as many ornamentation as you want.
When I learn a tune (usually from sheet music -I know, I know, it's not the best, but I'm lazy), I don't pay attention to how many ornamentation I put on it. It's almost automatic. When I play a new tune over and over, the ornamentation starts to show up, as well as the variations.
As far as you keep the rhythm, it's okay...

So, that's my answer. If it sounds good to yourself, it's fine.


Cheers,
Martin

[narrowdog]

Hi
Its a personal taste thing
Micho Russell's type of style is what I like, keeping it simple,
too much rolling flattens a tune for me, takes all the life from it.
As long as the rhythm is there do what you like.
Just my thoughts

@ Bothrops
Its great to here from you

[R Small]

I also like Micho Russell's style. Clean and spare but with enough ornaments to add some spice.

[walrii]

When the audience leaves, you've got too much.

[m31]

And how can one tell?

In a wine tasting course, the instructor told us to drink wines we like to drink, not necessarily the ones we're told to like. Of course when I understood what makes a good wine (or a fine Scotch), I started to appreciate those a lot more.

[Tim2723]

I've personally always thought that when ornamentation gets to the level that it's covering up poor execution, that's too much.

[DrPhill]

Thanks for your replies.

I have got to a stage where ornamentation seems to appear of its own accord in some tunes. In some tunes the ornamentation keeps increasing. I am worried that I will over-ornament as I have heard that beginners do this . On the other hand, in another thread, it was suggested that I use more ornamentation.

I guess its one of those situations where musical judgement and taste are needed. (that's me stuffed then!). Rhythm is most important, it seems, or for slow tunes (which I prefer) perhaps its the flow/shape of the music.

Any more views? Suggestions?

Thanks

[jemtheflute]

In the words of Bilbo Baggins, 'Lots and none at all', though admittedly that was re: dwarves.

[benhall.1]

Back on one of your old hobbit horses I see ...

[mahanpots]

Ornament enough so that you can leave some of it out next time around and have a bit of the tune charmingly hanging to one side like the town of Fermoy.

[straycat82]

Too many view ornamentation as things to stuff into a tune to achieve a "pro" level of playing. The articulations that you build into a tune should be put there intentionally to serve the tune in that instance; they should complement the pulse or rhythm or enhance a unique feature of that phrase of the tune. I've heard great tunes played at both ends of the spectrum (sparse ornaments vs. multiple) so it's very much about quality and not quantity. It's easy enough to look at a dotted quarter in a jig and play it as a roll, and there's not anything wrong with that, but don't make the mistake of looking at a rolled G as more advanced than playing, for example, GEG. It's all good stuff if it serves the tune well and certainly doing both of these rather than rolling every one will keep the listener's attention longer. Without a little variation you might as well record a tune once through and loop it becasue that's about as interesting as it is to listen to.

[NicoMoreno]

And how can one tell?

In a wine tasting course, the instructor told us to drink wines we like to drink, not necessarily the ones we're told to like. Of course when I understood what makes a good wine (or a fine Scotch), I started to appreciate those a lot more.

This is a great analogy. Some people will be forever fine to buy the cheap under $10 bottles of wine (that's me!), but people who have experience and have developed their palette will be looking for something a bit more difficult to obtain. And sometimes when you're still starting, something that an expert really likes just tastes too strong and you can't take as much. But then, some very good wines are also really easy to drink. I love this analogy.

But straycat also makes a good point, and it's important that it be stressed: Ornaments are not things that are put in to make your playing more advanced, they are (mostly) articulations and are integral to the tune. It is all about how you put them in. The flip side is that people will be able to tell how advanced you are by your ornaments (among other things!), but because of how they are used, not (just) how much. The irony of course, is that if they are placed in badly, it can often sound like there is just too much ornamentation.

[crookedtune]

I vastly prefer no ornamentation to too much, or the wrong kind.

A routine annoyance for me are the classically-trained violinists who play ITM in our session, with gobs of vibrato and exaggerated sweeping animation. Sheesh, just play the tune.

I also don't drown my fries in ketchup.

[riverman]

Back on one of your old hobbit horses I see ...

Hey, leave Jem alone! We Middle Earth fans like to vacation there once in a while!