Balls!

[Terry McGee]

Remember I posed the question, are the pads in saltspoon keys properly called purse pads or elastic balls? I now have the answer.

You'll find a few surprises, one of which is that the proper name for saltspoon keys isn't saltspoon keys!

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Purse-pads_ ... -Balls.htm

So what do we do now?

Terry

[s1m0n]

These days, 'purse pads' is the more informative term. Since the invention of vulcanisation in 1830, 'elastic' has made a bit of a shift in meaning. No one these days would think 'wool and leather' if you told them 'elastic'. Besides, neither leather nor wool is elastic (in any sense) to any significant degree.

"Plastic' made a similar shift for similar reasons. These days if you describe something as plastic, meaning 'malleable', you're going to confuse at least half your audience. Elastic is the same.

At the time, Muller was trying to make his new invention sound new and hi-tech, so he used those terms. We no longer seek to make woodenflute parts sound like tomorrow's technology. "Purse pads' correctly conveys the info that this is yesterday's technology.

[Aanvil]

Great write up Terry!

I will alter my nomenclature immediately!

I deconstructed old spherical pads a few years ago and found the very same thing.

My method is to not sew but to draw up the the kid leather and wool taunt and tie it near closed with a thread. I then insert the nozzle of a hot glue gun and give it a light squeeze to fill the hole and up the neck a bit.

Once the glue sets in a a few seconds I slice off the "neck" of the bag just below the thread.

Voila!

Spherical elastic pad not unlike the original.

A little shellac in the key cup and its good to go.

I believe I made one or two for Jon in his shop some time back when we were all noodling on the same problem.

One example I had found, and I wish I had taken a photo of it, was a spherical pad that had looked to be done mechanically.

I have no proof of it only that there was no drawing thread and the folds of the "purse mouth' were very sharp, even and perfectly radial... not unlike an iris.

I may have another somewhere but I'll need some great luck in finding it.

It could just be an over active imagination on my part but it distinctly struck me as very odd.

[MarkP]

Good stuff Terry, nicely put together from the bits and pieces.

[Terry McGee]

S1m0n raises an interesting issue above. I've added this to the account:

Now why "elastic"?

"Balls" we can understand - it describes the shape. But what's the obsession with "elastic" all about? To find that out, we have to consider what the alternatives were at the time. Coming out of the previous baroque era, we had the leather flap key - just some thin leather stuck to a flat flap, sealing over a flattened section of wood with the hole in it. Fine for a 1-key flute, but increasingly unreliable as you added more and more keys. You can see why Muller was in trouble with his chromatic clarinet.

But in 1785, Richard Potter patented his "Potter's German Flute" with a new system of metal "valves", which today we call Pewter Plugs. (Hmmm, I wonder when that name got going?) So there were two unique features of Muller's invention - they were balls and they were soft. Indeed, can we hear him making reference to Potter's pewter plugs in that quote above?

There ¡s no risk with these pads that either a moist or a dry atmosphere will make the keys unworkable; they close the holes effectively under all conditions and make no noise'

Pewter plugs, being non-elastic, can give trouble when the weather is very dry or moist, and the metal-lined hole is made oval by wood movement. And of course, being metal closing on metal, they were noisy.

Thomas Lindsay, 1828, agrees with Muller:

OF THE VARIOUS DESCRIPTIONS OF KEYS, used by different makers, he [the writer - Lindsay] gives a very decided preference to those with the Elastic Plugs or padded Keys, not only because he considers them best adapted for stopping, but also for the powerful recommendation which they carry with them, - that of being used without noise from the reaction of the key, and the additional fact that they are less liable to get out of order than either the flat-leathered keys, or those with Metal Plugs, so truly disagreeable for their noise and clatter.

These days of course we are used to pads being soft, stuffed and therefore elastic. So the unique feature for us comes down to their shape.

Terry

[s1m0n]

If Muller was writing today, he'd likely be using 'flexible' in place of elastic. Unless, of course, he went for the gold standard of low-meaning but impressive sounding buzzwords and called it 'proactive' and 'adaptive'.

[Jon C.]

Great write up Terry!

I will alter my nomenclature immediately!

I deconstructed old spherical pads a few years ago and found the very same thing.

My method is to not sew but to draw up the the kid leather and wool taunt and tie it near closed with a thread. I then insert the nozzle of a hot glue gun and give it a light squeeze to fill the hole and up the neck a bit.

Once the glue sets in a a few seconds I slice off the "neck" of the bag just below the thread.

Voila!

Spherical elastic pad not unlike the original.

A little shellac in the key cup and its good to go.

I believe I made one or two for Jon in his shop some time back when we were all noodling on the same problem.

One example I had found, and I wish I had taken a photo of it, was a spherical pad that had looked to be done mechanically.

I have no proof of it only that there was no drawing thread and the folds of the "purse mouth' were very sharp, even and perfectly radial... not unlike an iris.

I may have another somewhere but I'll need some great luck in finding it.

It could just be an over active imagination on my part but it distinctly struck me as very odd.

Yes, Peri made very nice round pillows, I think we used a hot melt gun? The trick is having the right amount of wool in the pad. Now that I have the originals to go by that will make it easier.
Terry, I the other pads on the Nicholson's Improved are "like new" I took one off and pulled the thread on it, so now i have a good template for the smaller cups, Bb, Cnat, F's. I ordered up some Louet South African Fine Wool, Top Spinning Fiber 7 (whatever that means) and will start the pillow-purse-elastic-ball factory... The sewing worked great, if you do a stitch that goes through, then over the edge, this covers the thread with the pleat, so you cannot see it. That might explain why we haven't seen the thread in the past?
I figure that they probably contracted making these pads to seamstresses to make, as they require nimble fingers to sew the little pads!

[Terry McGee]

Perhaps more a worry is did they pass the work to children from the workhouses?

I remember some discussion somewhere (perhaps Bate?) along the lines that keymaking could have been a cottage industry. Wherever it was, I don't remember any proof offered. It's certainly possible, but I can't imagine reaching a rewarding level of efficiency with domestic facilities. But pad sewing would be a definite go.

Now Jon, does your Nicholson Improved have pewter plugs (oops sorry, "metal valves"!) or stuffed pads of some kind on the Eb, C & C#. If stuffed, can you take a look at the seats? I noticed mine (which has stuffed pads) has rings around the holes on the seats, but not on the body keyholes! And Rick at Oldflutes reports the same. So now we need to determine if those stuffed pads are "elastic balls" like the others on the flute, or card backed or some other construction. Looks like the story is well-and-truly not-over-yet!

So much for early retirement!

(Whew!)

Terry

[Jon C.]

Perhaps more a worry is did they pass the work to children from the workhouses?

I remember some discussion somewhere (perhaps Bate?) along the lines that keymaking could have been a cottage industry. Wherever it was, I don't remember any proof offered. It's certainly possible, but I can't imagine reaching a rewarding level of efficiency with domestic facilities. But pad sewing would be a definite go.

Now Jon, does your Nicholson Improved have pewter plugs (oops sorry, "metal valves"!) or stuffed pads of some kind on the Eb, C & C#. If stuffed, can you take a look at the seats? I noticed mine (which has stuffed pads) has rings around the holes on the seats, but not on the body keyholes! And Rick at Oldflutes reports the same. So now we need to determine if those stuffed pads are "elastic balls" like the others on the flute, or card backed or some other construction. Looks like the story is well-and-truly not-over-yet!

So much for early retirement!

(Whew!)

Terry

I have stuffed pads (new name!) on the foot keys, including the Eb key. I did notice last night, they have a different seat, it is the ring around the hole style. My first thought, would be that he would use a different pad, but they are clearly original pads, and all elastic balls. A interesting side note; the Firth Hall and Pond on my desk at the moment, looks a lot like a Clementi, has different seats on the foot, volcano type, and concave seats on the rest of the flute. I often thought this flute may be a import from Clementi's shop, I wonder?
Possibly it had something to do with the size of the tone hole, it is so large, that when you make a concave seat, on a narrow section, it would make a very large hole and giant key cup?

[Jon C.]

My first sewn pillow pad. the stitches are every .5 mm, this way, there are no wrinkles. This a smaller G# pad. Thin sheep skin, and wool stuffing with size 40 fine thread.

[Terry McGee]

Now just check that sheepskin is airtight (try sucking through some tubing with the pad over the end). I just have a feeling that the skin of some animal isn't - something to do with the difference between hair, wool, feathers, scales, quills or something. Don't really remember what - it might have been the platypus!

It would be annoying to make a pile of pads and install them, only to find you have finely distributed leakage everywhere!

On that topic, I have found normal clarinet style pads that leak through tiny hair holes, so trust nobody!

Terry

[s1m0n]

I remember some discussion somewhere (perhaps Bate?) along the lines that keymaking could have been a cottage industry. Wherever it was, I don't remember any proof offered. It's certainly possible, but I can't imagine reaching a rewarding level of efficiency with domestic facilities.

Silversmithing has been a cottage industry in Ireland (and elsewhere) from prehistoric times and into the present day. Come to think of it, aren't YOU a cottage industry?

[Jon C.]

Now just check that sheepskin is airtight (try sucking through some tubing with the pad over the end). I just have a feeling that the skin of some animal isn't - something to do with the difference between hair, wool, feathers, scales, quills or something. Don't really remember what - it might have been the platypus!

It would be annoying to make a pile of pads and install them, only to find you have finely distributed leakage everywhere!

On that topic, I have found normal clarinet style pads that leak through tiny hair holes, so trust nobody!

Terry

Interesting, I will try it, I never thought the pad could leak through the leather. (at the moment I lost my little elastic ball on my desk!) I used this leather on a concertina bellow restoration, as it was very tight grained. I could always buy that good kangaroo Pneumatic leather that they sell on line. I wonder if it would help to seal the leather with a pad sealer?

[an seanduine]

I remember some discussion somewhere (perhaps Bate?) along the lines that keymaking could have been a cottage industry. Wherever it was, I don't remember any proof offered. It's certainly possible, but I can't imagine reaching a rewarding level of efficiency with domestic facilities. But pad sewing would be a definite go.
Terry

If my memory is right, the reference was to French Farmers making keys as a cottage industry, and this activity was compared to the Medieval practice of farming out the making of chain mail in a similar fashion. . .

Cheers,
Bob

[jemtheflute]

I have just posted some pictures of C19th "elastic ball" pads recently removed from R&R #4298 on Facebook.

1) outer faces
2) backs
3) close-up of backs of two pads
4) detail of back of one pad.

These pads are in very good condition considering their age - they must be C19th and may even be R&R-fitted originals, although there is no way to prove that (it is just a hunch based on general cleanness and neatness and lack of signs of work - relevant to other aspects of the state of the flute also). They were fixed in place with yellow sealing wax, the residue of which may be seen on the backs of them, but there is nothing to indicate that the holes at the back had been sealed in anyway prior to fixing into the cups (a possibility mooted earlier in this discussion). These pads were actually just about still working despite age and dessication: I wonder whether they might even be revived by application of a suitable oil to the leather to restore its suppleness.....but I don't plan to try that and have replaced them with modern clarinet pads which, on this flute, fit readily in the key-cups without any need to adapt them.

Jon C has also recently put up a short album of pictures of his attempt at making pads of this type