Embouchure mystery

[Fifthtry]

I'm learning the flute (aren't we all) and am proud to say that not only can I make a sound but after about 3 months I can finally hold the dang thing without pain. Now it's just a matter of time, eh? But that's not my question.

I have found the following fascinating, have no idea why it's so, and wonder if others have come across this:

I play high D whistle and usually when I go to the third floor to practice, far far away from my wife, I'll alternate playing the whistle and the flute. Invariably my ability to make a decent sound on the flute will fade over several minutes. Invariably if I pick up the whistle and play a tune and then pick up the flute again, the flute sounds better than ever, until it fades over several minutes. Repeat.

I have no idea why playing the whistle would somehow put my mouth in the mood to make a good noise on the flute. Anyone else noticed this?

Thanks.

John

[lingpupa]

Yes, though not in that form. In the relatively early days I'd notice the tone (poor as it was) fading altogether untill I took a few minutes rest.
My guess is that it's muscle fatigue, and my second guess - well, it's just a hunch really - is that while some muscles may indeed have to get stronger, these problems can come from muscles that don't need to be doing any hard work at all nevertheless getting tense and fatigued.
I have no doubt that you are right to take a break when it gets bad; just keep going, and eventually the effect is likely to fade away.

[m31]

Losing flute tone is caused by a change in embouchure, flute (e.g., sagging flute) or grip position (rotation), or failing to seal the tone holes. Part of the challenge is to figure out which one.

Sometimes I find it tricky to get a focused flute tone after playing my tin whistle. I think it's because I have a tendency to pinch my lips on the fipple, thus leave a slight impression in them. Fortunately, this only lasts for a few moments.

[celticmodes]

Lips were happy about not having to play the whistle anymore

Probably fatigue and the whistle playing is resting those muscles.

[Doug_Tipple]

Embouchures come and go. It's just part of the flute playing process, nothing to worry about. As you become more accomplished, this occurs less frequently.

[mutepointe]

When I was first learning, I would play during commercials, that was all the air I had.

[Kirk B]

I've been playing for about 7 months now and about half of that time on my current flute, a Forbes delrin. At this point I'm able to keep my embouchure together much longer than I used to but it still fades after time.

One thing I've noticed is that even if I'm not fatigued yet still not producing good tone, sometimes stepping away for a few minutes and "resetting" helps. It allows my brain to jump back and pick up the muscle memory, not only for embouchure but for grip, arm position etc. that it takes to produce good tone. I have to clear the bad stuff out and let the good stuff back in again.

Another observation is that when I'm learning a new tune my tone goes right out the gap while I'm focusing on learning the notes but once I commit the notes to memory, the tone comes back again. Me poor little brain just can't handle all of it at the same time.

Regards,

Kirk

[Latticino]

I've noticed a similar phenomina. In addition to resting my embochure I've found that swabbing out or "blowing" out the condensation from the flute seems to have a pretty pronounced effect on my tone as well. YMMV, as I appear to be a fairly "wet" player, but it is certainly worth a try at least.

Best of luck in any event.

[drewr]

I'm into this two years now, practicing daily, and only in the past few months have I been able to play two complete 2-part reels (each through three times) back to back without losing my embouchure. It's a long hard road, and I think (hope) that stamina is one of the final bumps in that road. I'm glad that it's finally starting to come to me.

Make sure your try and "blow through" all the phrasing with a more-or-less steady stream of air, almost until you've no air left. Try to stop the air flow with your tongue or throat as little as possible and instead try to "shape" the stream before it gets to the embouchure hole to vary the tone. I found this discovery preceded significant progress in flute-playing staying power. Stopping and starting the airstream to articulate notes and taking too many breaths seems (to me) to really tire your embouchure out quicker for whatever reason.

[MeaghanEryn]

Like m31, I noticed my flute tone was quite unfocused after whistle playing (temporarily). It felt like there was a huge gap in the middle of my embouchure, previously occupied by a whistle mouthpiece. It's better now that I have a Burke and play my Susato less.

Anyways....

In addition to what everyone else said, I would suggest: Relax! After a day-long band retreat my arms would hurt, but while the brass and reeds whined about how dead their mouths were, mine felt fine. Then I took brass and woodwind techniques, and I could only play those instruments for literally five minutes before air started leaking out the corners of my mouth--my embouchure was too weak. There is really very little "strength" required to hold a flute embouchure (though I think there's lots of little controlling-type muscles that have to be engaged...I'm sure someone's going to correct me on the physiology). Try experimenting with how loose and relaxed you can make your embouchure--let your cheeks sag and the corners of your mouth pull down into a pout. I had a really weird/cool experience a while ago--I went out for a run and played flute as soon as I came back. My tone was so big and full! I had no choice but to be relaxed, since the rest of me was so tired (though breath control was a bit of a problem...). Might be a fun experiment....

I've also often noticed myself playing with a "sagging" flute. Try practicing in the mirror to make sure the flute is parallel to your lips.

But on top of all that, like everyone already said, I think it's largely a matter of building up those little muscles and just getting used to flute playing. Good luck and have fun!

[Kirk B]

I had a really weird/cool experience a while ago--I went out for a run and played flute as soon as I came back. My tone was so big and full! I had no choice but to be relaxed, since the rest of me was so tired

Excellent point. A few weeks ago I was so swamped with work that I was stressed to the limit and on top of that I was only getting about 5 hours of sleep a night for a few weeks. I couldn't produce a decent tone to save my soul. After the work died down a bit, the stress level decreased and I got some rest, the tone came back.

Of course I always play better after a few pints as well.

[david_h]

Not sure I'm having the same problem but I find if, rather than taking a break, I slow down to whatever speed allows me to sound the notes properly I can bring the speed up again once things are working.

[ChrisCracknell]

I've noticed too that running is good for playing the flute immediately afterwards. Probably because my whole body gets properly warmed up and in the mood for doing its' (flutey) job properly.

Also, probably for the same reason, I find my tone improving as I get into my playing - reaching its' best after about fifteen minutes. Blasting through (i.e. loud and brash) something I can do in my sleep is also good for warming up. And going to sessions is also good for stamina - as your lips get tired, you get forced to relax and blow properly to get any tone out at all - which actually leads to better tone! I have to pull funny faces to ease my face muscles after maybe three sets of fast (for me) reels with minimal pauses between them. This is more due to me tensing up due to tempo problems with the sets rather than actual basic playing stress.

[Maihcol]

I used to go to a climbing wall a couple of times a week to train for rock-climbing - 10 or 15 years back now. That used to really loosen up my fingers for playing the flute afterwards. It wouldn't last if I'd overdone it at the wall or on the rock though...and I can't remember it doing anything for my embouchure!
The embouchure needs regular practise to keep it in form but if you overdo it for whatever stage you're at, the muscles need to rest or else you can start thinking you're getting worse...

Garry