Time gentlemen, Please.

[chris_coreline]

so in a two dimensional state yer taller than the one next to ya, huh?

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
which translates as:
in the kingdom of the blind the one with the most tenticles is king

[BillChin]

Humans have a difficult time with time, because humans can only travel in time in one direction, at one speed.

To those that posit a "before" tell me where "higher" or "lower" was before the bang. What was 100 miles or 1,000 miles above the singularity? There was no there there. The question about what was above the singularity is as meaningless as asking about "before." There was no space, there was no time.

Keep in mind that the Big Bang is a theory, that as outlined in the book mentioned, time as a dimension begins at the big bang. As does up, down, sideways, forwards, backwards. None of those dimensional terms are defined before the event, neither is the term "before." What would it meant to be 100 miles higher, when there is no space? What does it mean to be a few seconds before, when there is no time? To argue otherwise is showing some very human limitations that the original poster mentioned.

If a person doesn't like postulates behind the theory, then a new theory is necessary. The new theory wouldn't be what is currently understood as the Big Bang. All of that would be necessary for a "before." As would be necessary for "higher" or "lower" or any other dimensional terms to have any relevance before space AND time were created.

[chris_coreline]

To those that posit a "before" tell me where "higher" or "lower" was before the bang. What was 100 miles or 1,000 miles above the singularity? There was no there there. The question about what was above the singularity is as meaningless as asking about "before." There was no space, there was no time.

... we can say there was no space and or time - we can say what there wasnt, what we cannot say is what there *was*, and I think (pedentry about before and up and down and the like ascide) 'what was there before the big bang' is a very exiting question.

...one of the guesses (now disproven i believe) was the E8xE8 supersymmatry theory, whereby what existed before our universe was another universe on the brink of collapse (big crunch)... the energy of one fueling the genisis of another, like a massive newtons cradle...
there could be an infinate number of seperate universes, there could be a computer program, there could be a hypercelestial ultrapony. as it stands however we have nearly as much chance of finding out which as mr smiler here -> has of guessing the colour of my desk.

so the question is only meaningless if you stick to a narrow definition of 'before' and 'outside'

[Innocent Bystander]

Humans have a difficult time with time, because humans can only travel in time in one direction, at one speed.

Well, you know, I was never convinced that Kurt Vonnegut was making up the events in "Slaughterhouse Five" where Billy Pilgrim moves back and forth in time.

Events of thirty years ago rise unbidden in my mind - things I never realised were there to forget. And the events of last weekend - it is as if they never were. I'll remember them, perhaps a Tuesday week from now, perhaps ten years ahead. Perhaps I remembered them in the past sometime - how would I remember? And then there's the matter of hearing things before they happen. Twenty-four hours before they happen. Sometimes longer. Sad to say, I'm not making this up. It doesn't make anything easier.

Some humans can only travel in time in one direction at one speed. I can't be the only one like this. Cats do it too, I think.

[rorybbellows]

I dont think that the human mind can understand anything that is outside the universe,which would include timelessness and the concept of zero dimensions. In our present state of evolution I think the brain is limited because it is of this universe. If you support the "we are god" theory then that will all change,the only question is when.

RORY

[Pammy]

Do you think it is possible for the human mind to comprehend the non-existance of time ?

No I don't, whatever theories you come up with.

Any way who says there is a non-existance of time? They don't know. It's just another theory.

[Denny]

Any way who says there is a non-existance of time? They don't know. It's just another theory.

Just like Ed Sullivan, innit kid!

[hans]

Mathematics is content without the notion of time and such other physical imperfections, and at least to mathematicians quite comprehensible. But then it is just theory (thanks Pammy!).

Mathematicians of the pure breed obviously care nothing about time, as they take all the time they need.

Only if you start worrying about time will time become a problem, otherwise it is an illusion.

Or from a physicist's hard viewpoint it is always relative, depending where you travel and which clock you are looking at.

No time without clock(s).

Now we can argue if there are clock(s) outside the universe. well?

[jiminos]

short answer... yes.

a thought.... as far as time goes.... there is only "now." the measurement of time is completely arbitrary. the units of measurement were arbitrarily created by people. when was the first hour measured? by whom? how? the units used to measure time are a convenient convention.

two cents.

be well,

jim

[Denny]

Does Death Exist? New Theory Says 'No'

Many of us fear death. We believe in death because we have been told we will die. We associate ourselves with the body, and we know that bodies die. But a new scientific theory suggests that death is not the terminal event we think.

[dfernandez77]

Humans have a difficult time with time, because humans can only travel in time in one direction, at one speed.

Perceived time and space are really concrete to most people. You have to break your head out of it's training to get the feel for something different. Hawking and such do it through science, others do it through philosophy/religion, and others through psychedelics (drugs).

Then there's the shamanistic/religious/ritual experiences facilitated by marijuana, peyote, Salvia Divinorum, and such. These are potentially dangerous - but they can also change a person's perception of time and space nearly instantly ("instantly" being relative to consensual human perception). Which is probably why they are dangerous. It's been many years, but I remember some marijuana that would make me perceive 30 seconds as if it lasted an eternity.

When you understand that perception is only perception no matter how you tweak it - science, religion, philosophy, pharmaceuticals - you get that it is mutable. You'll have more flexibility of mind for things like "A Brief History of Time".

Nowadays my philosophical perception of time and space is very flexible, so Hawkings discussions are fairly easy to understand and be amused by.

[rorybbellows]

Its undisputable that our perception of time can slow down or speed up ,but has anyone ever percieved no time ?


RORY

[BillChin]

Its undisputable that our perception of time can slow down or speed up ,but has anyone ever percieved no time ?


RORY

Humans used to see the time cycles as circular. Before becomes after, and after becomes before, it is a circle, just as the physical Earth is a sphere. Go far enough into the future and circle back to the past. Go far enough east and come back from the west. "History" so to speak, primarily began with the written word, which is a relatively new invention.

People speak of time standing still. There are endless songs and sonnets with that theme.

Transcendence, whether it be physical, spiritual or religious in nature, would get a human outside of time, and outside of the limited time mindset. Humans have/can certainly get there, some with chemical assistance as noted, some using more natural means.

Some say that some art work tries to depict an object through various phases in time, even though the art might only be two-dimensional.

Try this thought experiment: imagine being stuck in space and to be able to move freely in time, backwards and forwards, fast or slow. What kind of fictional story could a person write about such a creature?

[dwest]

Its undisputable that our perception of time can slow down or speed up ,but has anyone ever percieved no time ?


RORY

No time giftcards are the only ones I accept.

[dfernandez77]

Its undisputable that our perception of time can slow down or speed up ,but has anyone ever percieved no time ?


RORY

No time giftcards are the only ones I accept.

Does it take them long to arrive in the post?